.38 special with X-treme 158 plated FP and HP-38

[1KPerDay]

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I've worked up a reasonably accurate load, 4.1 HP-38. 3.8 was okay as well. Depending on which data you examine (Hodgdon/Winchester data, Hornady, Lyman, or Lee books) and whether you're looking at lead data, 4.1 may or may be mid-range or may be in the +P range. IMO probably not +P but of course see the disclaimer above. I am crimping to the cannelure, a moderate crimp.

However, I shot a few cylinders full through my S&W M37, with reasonable success, but noted that though the recoil was firm/significant (not painful) and the muzzle flash was impressive from the stubby barrel, the time between the "boom" of the gun and the "ting" of the steel was significantly longer than with factory 130 WWB (which recoils about the same). I don't have a chrony. There are no flattened primers, cracked cases, or sticky extraction.

It's apparent that these are simply not going as fast, or maybe not burning as efficiently in short barrels, as other loads. Furthermore they aren't hitting with any authority nor leaving large visible spots on the steel where the paint is knocked off. It's almost like they're "light" loads. I have a hard time seeing where they're hitting from 18 yards, whereas with "normal" ammo I can easily see my hits.

Ideas? I have not tried any other powders to this point. And times being what they are, I only have American Select, Herco, and Promo to play with (in addition to a rapidly diminishing pound of HP-38).

 

[rcmodel]

Well, they appear to not be going as fast, because they aren't going as fast.

Hard to push a 158 as fast as you can push a 130.

Just so you know, Hodgdon's .38 Spl data is tested and published using a 7.7" test barrel.
4.6 grains HP-38 gives 807 FPS.

Out of your 2" gun, and 4.1 grains, you are probably only getting around 650-700.

If you want fast, you will have to use a lighter bullet.

I got nothing on Select or Promo powder.
A stiff charge of Herco might get you a little more velocity.


rc

 

[buck460XVR]

the time between the "boom" of the gun and the "ting" of the steel was significantly longer than with factory 130 WWB (which recoils about the same). I don't have a chrony. There are no flattened primers, cracked cases, or sticky extraction.

nor leaving large visible spots on the steel where the paint is knocked off. It's almost like they're "light" loads. I have a hard time seeing where they're hitting from 18 yards, whereas with "normal" ammo I can easily see my hits.

If the time between "the "boom" of the gun and the "ting" of the steel" is that apparent, you should also see a dramatic change in POI from other ammo. Without a chrony, trying to judge difference in velocity from recoil and fired cases is just a WAG.

I've found that plated bullets do not "splat" like lead bullets or even jacketed bullets on steel nor do they impact things like bowling pins the same. They tend to perform like FMJs on these.

I've also found that type of powder used has little difference when used in shorter barrels. Performance seems to increase and decrease because of barrel length, burn rate and projectile, with those combinations giving best performance in longer barrels also giving the best performance in shorter barrels.

Without a chrony, guessing velocity is just that......guessing. But in a SD type round, I tend to worry more about accuracy and reliability, than about velocity.

 

[Steve C]

It's apparent that these are simply not going as fast, or maybe not burning as efficiently in short barrels, as other loads. Furthermore they aren't hitting with any authority nor leaving large visible spots on the steel where the paint is knocked off. It's almost like they're "light" loads. I have a hard time seeing where they're hitting from 18 yards, whereas with "normal" ammo I can easily see my hits.

Your load is a standard pressure load for the .38 spl with 158gr bullets. I'd expect your velocity from a snub nose to be around 700 fps. The 130gr factory loads should be doing about 100 fps faster with the lighter bullet and similar pressure.

To optimize velocity with your load make sure you use a good crimp in the cannelure provided. Change in primer can improve velocity, I've found Winchester primers give me about 5 to 7% greater velocity than a CCI.

As to effect on the target plate. The added velocity of the factory loads and perhaps their greater hardness being a jacketed vrs plated lead probably causes the difference in marks on steel.

 

[Stormin.40]

Looking at Hodgdon max data you are losing almost 175fps going from 130gr to 158gr bullets. With a low velocity cartridge like 38 special mixed with a short barrel my guess is you are not getting 700fps out of your load and nowhere near what the 130gr factory Winchester rounds are doing.

I shoot a lot of 158gr bullets out of my snubnose using HP38 and about the same charge as you, but my bullets are lead and I am probably gaining almost 200fps just due to less friction. I have not actually compared over the chrony but looking at Hodgdon's data they seem to lose 200fps with similar charges of powder going from lead to jacketed bullets.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks folks. These are for range/plinking so no worries about defensive use. I'm comparing impact versus factory plated or jacketed FP, and compared to plated/FMJ in other calibers. All others hit harder. You may be right in it being something to do particularly with these bullets and how they're built.

Also obviously a Chrony is essential for accurate evaluation. I was kinda thinking out loud and wondering about other factors that I may not have considered.

Since these seem to be reasonably accurate (I've had trouble finding an accurate .38 special load... or maybe I just don't shoot snubby revolvers as well as I'd like) I'll probably stick with this load for a while, or until I run out of HP-38.

If I can hit the 8-inch plates DA from 16-18 yards 95% of the time I call it good. Some of you may scoff at that but I'm not a bullseye shooter.

I just really want a load that's as at least accurate for me as factory loads, and I've been fairly unsuccessful in .38 special and .380 so far. In 9mm, .40, and .45, my handloads have proven more accurate than factory ball.

 

[murf]

try a different primer.

murf

 

[KansasSasquatch]

I would try that Promo if I were you. Supposedly it uses the same charge weights as Red Dot. Red Dot being a faster burning powder than HP-38/W231, you'll also get more loads out of a pound of powder. For 158gr MBC "Match" LSWC loads I use 3.3gr of Red Dot (3.1-3.5gr I BELIEVE is what my data lists). It makes a real nice plinking load. Check your Lee manual to see if it has data for 158gr plated with Red Dot. Use that Red Dot data for Promo. It may not make for a "high velocity" load but I bet you can find something that's very pleasant to shoot. Tame recoil, low or no muzzle flash, economical, and probably accurate as well.

 

[1KPerDay]

I'll do that. I've used red dot before with LWC and LRN with good results.

 

[788Ham]

I use a load of 4.0g of Win 231, same powder as the HP 38, with 158g. SWC in my 38's, a light plinking load for my Colt Trooper 4", and my S&W #15 4", vey accurate load. Hope this helps.

 

[stavman11]

I have been using 4.6gr of w231 and 158gr Bullets and Its a real Nice load....

Now i have a S&W w/ a 4" barrel.. so a bit more than yer 2"...

I did 4gr upto 4.6 and really Like the 4.6gr.... 4gr and 4.2 just seemed a bit tame...

maybe try a bit higher load like 4.2 or 4.3gr if you are looking for more POP..... But sounds like the Pop is there...
I'd suggest getting a chrono.... great addition to any loaders arsenal for sure... was one of the best $109 tools i got for loading