.38 spl short

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spm

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I have never seen this caliber before. What is it designed for? Is it safe to shoot in a .38 spl revolver?

Thanks
s.
 
You'll need to fill us in on a little more detail. There is no such thing as a .38Spl short round.

Are you sure you're not looking at .38S&W? It's a rimmed cartridge that is a couple of thou fatter in diameter and a little shorter than the .38Spl. But they are two totally different rounds. You can't chamber and fire a .38S&W in a .38Spl gun.
 
As BCRider mentioned, you may be thinking of .38 S&W which predates .38 Special and the two are not interchangeable. .38 S&W is a fairly common chambering for the old top break pocket revolvers and a few older turn of the century revolvers. I have occasionally heard people refer to the .38 S&W as .38 Special Short but that's erroneous since they're dimensionally quite different.
 
If there is such a thing it must have been recently created. However the .38 Special was based on the previous .38 Long Colt, and an even shorter .38 Short Colt was based on it. Both came about when Colt was making cap & ball to metallic cartridge conversions.

That said, I understand that some combat game competitors who shoot revolvers have made hand-loaded ammunition based on .38 Special cases trimmed to (more or less) .38 Short Colt length. The purpose of this would be faster/easier extraction and ejection of fired rounds. Also easier to load.

As it was originally designed for a black powder charge, the .38 Special has far more capacity then's necessary.

It’s generally safe to shoot the shorter cartridges in .38 Special revolvers. However this may not be true depending on what powder and charge weight is used in them. I wouldn’t used them until more is known.
 
Bcrider, yes you can chamber some 38 SW in some 38 spl. I have done it. Don't recomend it.
 
Do you perhaps suppose that spm is talking about " Mag Tech .38 Special Short, 125 Gr. LRB cartridge", I bet cha he is.:)
 
I've never used it, I often wondered about it. From what I understand it is just a light load with a light bullet. I would guess for shooting in places where you don't need a full power .38 Special ( shooting unarmed beer cans ). Most people will just shoot a light wad cutter load, I don't even know if they are still making the short special. It would be safe to shoot in any .38 Special or 357 revolver.
 
I looked it up. What a barnburner.:rolleyes: 685 fps is pretty anemic. I wonder if it is safe in guns chambered for .38 short/.38 long colt? In the picture the case looks way shorter than a .38spl case in proportion to the bullet. $22 a box and even in stock :what: at Midway.
 
A friend used to trim .357 brass to .38 length once the case mouths started to split, and .38 to ".38 Short" once those started to split. I don't think there was anything special about the length of the Shorts, other than being enough shorter to get rid of the cracks.
 
I figure the Mag Tech .38 Special Short is directed towards people who in the past would have shot .38 Short Colt or .38 Long Colt in their .38 Special revolvers. It avoids the history and limitations of cartridges originally loaded with heel bullets in unstepped chambers. It gives a proper inside lubricated groove diameter bullet in a short case to minimize position sensitivity of a small powder charge.
Cowboy shooting for the non-reloader and ammo for Your Wife.
 
The .38 Special (introduced by S&W) was developed from the .38 Colt family of cartridges (thinner rim, slightly thinner case than the .38 S&W).

True .38S&W cases won't fit the .38 Special chamber at minimum dimensions. However, I came across a batch of ".38 S&W" cases that I suspect were made from .38 Short Colt cases stamped .38S&W. They don't match the true .38S&W cases I have and they easily fit my .38 Spl and .357 revolvers.
 
The .38 Special (introduced by S&W) was developed from the .38 Colt family of cartridges (thinner rim, slightly thinner case than the .38 S&W).

True .38S&W cases won't fit the .38 Special chamber at minimum dimensions. However, I came across a batch of ".38 S&W" cases that I suspect were made from .38 Short Colt cases stamped .38S&W. They don't match the true .38S&W cases I have and they easily fit my .38 Spl and .357 revolvers.
Click to expand...

.38 Special has a *thicker* rim than .38 S&W. I tried cutting down Special cases to make .38 S&W's and the thick rims caused them to drag so they were unusable. :( I still have all these short .38 Special cases; I could try loading something like those Magtechs. (use a .38/357 sizing die and 9mm seater and crimper)
 
zxcvbob, if you can find someone with a metal lathe it would be simplicity itself to turn up a "chamber" in a slug of steel, slit it so it acts like a collet then quickly skim your short cases to work. Mind you the primer pockets may require a slight deepening to let the primers seat deeply enough.

Is 38S&W brass really that hard to find?

So it sounds like these short Specials are a new thing and pretty well a testing of the waters as opposed to a full and regular sort of deal. I guess we learn something new each day.

Frankly since I reload the idea is laughable to me. And even if I didn't I can't really see the point when 148gn wadcutter target loads are so generally available... well, maybe not with the present panic buying. But NORMALLY they are readily available :D

And the reduced recoil with the wadcutter loads is already so light I can't see messing up my brass bucket with yet another special case. It's bad enough sorting out the 9's from the .38's and .357's.
 
The only kind-of legitimate use I can think of is making your own 9mm Federal Rimmed cartridges; either for a bulldog revolver actually chambered for that cartridge, or for use in a .357 Magnum or a strong .38 Special for really fast reloads.

I have enough real .38 S&W brass now; I bought a couple of hundred pieces.
 
I believe that the current .38 Special (Short) came about because some revolver-shooting combat game competitors realized that it’s much easier and faster to load and clear short cartridges then long ones, especially when using speed loaders or full-moon clips.

They might also (at least in theory) allow more certain extraction – and maybe full ejection – in those snub-nosed revolvers that have shorter ejection rods.

With the use of black powder being well over a century behind us the case length and capacity of the.38 Special cartridge is totally unnecessary, but major gun and ammunition manufacturers seem to be totally uninterested.

.38 S&W cartridges are supposed too be to fat to go into .38 Special chambers, but sometimes they obviously do. When this happens either the chamber or cartridge (or both) are out of spec. If the .38 S&W case doesn’t have room to expand and contract after being fired, sticky extraction may occur.
 
Bcrider, yes you can chamber some 38 SW in some 38 spl. I have done it.
Click to expand...
You really shouldn't be able to unless something is out of spec somewhere.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct...You SHOULDN'T be able to...

That said, I have an 8-3/8" S&W 686 that will chamber and fire both factory Remington, and Winchester .38 S&W, as well as my reloads...

These same rounds will not chamber in any Ruger I have ever tried them in...

I have no other Smiths available to try...
 
I've used them in a j-frame airweight.

Recoil was almost non existent.

Only slightly more than a 22lr LCR

They were particularly smokey when fired and left what seemed like ash in the cylinder.

Strange, but, I don't see them causing any harm.
 
I have no other Smiths available to try...
Click to expand...

If you have the opportunity, try them in an old Colt Police Positive which is chambered in .38 S&W (.38 Colt New Police). They tend to have smaller bore and chamber dimensions.
 
As I understand, that .38 Special Short was made for shooting in the old Colt revolvers (including the Lightning) that were originally made for the .38 Long Colt. I suspect they didn't just call it .38 Long Colt because it is below SAAMI specs for that cartridge.

IIRC, there is a tolerance overlap in diameter between .38 S&W and .38 Special/.38 Long Colt/.38 Short Colt, so it is not uncommon for a batch of .38 S&W to fit a .38 Special or .357 revolver, or, sometimes, for a .38 S&W round to fit a couple of .38 Special chambers in a revolver but not all.

Jim
 
Well, considering the realities of chamber tolerances and such I can see the cartridges being able to be inserted. But the bullet is up to as much as .004 to .005 larger than it is supposed to be for the barrel. That's a LOT of squeezing down to get from the light charge. By the time the bullet is "extruded" out the barrel I'd be surprised if the muzzle velocity isn't severely reduced.
 
I have almost 100 pieces of short .38 Special brass from my failed attempt at forming .38 S&W. Will have to try loading them just like 9mm (but with a stronger crimp) to shoot in one of my K-frames... Might not even have to adjust the dies, just swap out the sizer.
 
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