.38 Super, Talk to Me Please

[wanderinwalker]

Good morning. Pretty much what the title says, I'm looking for experiences and opinions on the .38 Super. Specifically in a 1911-pattern pistol. I'm very, very close to making the decision to purchase a stainless Colt Competition model and right now the .38 Super is beating out the 9mm and .45 ACP. For some reason it's just singing to me.

Background: I've always admired the 1911. I shoot well with them, am fairly comfortable disassembling and reassembling them, and just think it's something every dedicated handgunner should experience at some point. However, I'm having trouble deciding which caliber to get for my first personally owned one. I can't buy into the "All Fall to Hardball" mythology of the .45 ACP, but at the same time I can't bring myself to run a 9mm 1911. The 10mm Delta Elite caught my eye because it's a legendary hot rod. Again though, not enough to make me say "Yeah, this is the one."

Enter the .38 Super. I know enough of the history of the 1911 to know the Super is a classic cartridge for the platform from the Depression-era. I know enough to know it's a semi-rimmed case with an early reputation for average or less accuracy. I know enough to know .38 Super ammo is not a Wal-Mart cartridge and really shines as a reloader's round. (No worries there, I'm a reloader.) I know just enough to know it makes no rational sense to get a Super except that I now want one. It looks like I can reload it using common 9mm bullets I have on hand, with common small pistol primers I already stock, and most of the slower 9mm (or faster .357 Magnum) powders will work great in the Super.

Are there any pitfalls or intricacies I should be warned of before plunging into these waters? Warnings on magazines, parts, or other areas I may be missing? Personal stories of what makes the .38 Super?

And lastly, I'm set on a getting a Colt. Many years ago I decided my first 1911 has to have the Pony on the slide. So please don't talk me out of that!

 

[springer99]

No much to add here, since you've obviously outlined your reasons for getting a Super, and want one because you just want one. Hey, that's good enough for me. I love my Super and shoot it better than my 45ACP's in 1911. Just three things I'll add.
1 - I found that the accuracy of my 1911 38Super got better as I approached max. loads. I tested my loads using a Ransom rest, so I know it wasn't me.
2 - I found that, in addition to common .355 and .356 dia. jacketed pills, I could also use .357 cast loads to great effect.
3 - Get a stock of 125gr. ,356dia HAP pills and some HS-6 and go to it.

Enjoy

 

[ATLDave]

I guess be aware that there are variants of the 38 Super - 38 Super Comp and 38 Super TJ - that arose in the competition world and omit the semi-rim. These are supposed to run better in double-stack 2011-type race guns. Because they don't have a rim, they're not 100% compatible with a gun with an extractor set up for semi-rimmed 38 super. If you happen to be in an environment where you might sometimes find some 38 super range brass, you'll need to look at headstamps to sort those out.

But you're probably planning to buy all your own brass, anyway.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't own one but a shooting buddy does.

You can load heavier bullets in the 38 Super than the 9mm and on average generate 200fps to 300fps more too. I like shooting the .38 Super in a 1911 platform and it makes one check of a SD handgun.

 

[SSN Vet]

I've wanted a 1911 in 38 super for a long time.

Check out 9x23 as well, it's very similar, but can be loaded quite a bit hotter.

 

[Cemetery21]

The (old) legend of 38 Super inaccuracy was probably due to Colt's chamber design - the semi-rim headspaced on the tiny portion of the barrel hood. Much later, when the Super began to be modified for gun games, barrel makers headspaced the cartridge on the case mouth (like the .45 and 9mm). Colt eventually followed suit. I have a couple of modern Supers that are very accurate. I also have a mix of conventional Super and Comp brass and both pistols run all the brass fine. Mine were built/tuned/converted by Springfield Custom shop. I still shoot .45 and 9mm more than the Supers, but I just had to have one.

 

[CoalTrain49]

A newer Colt 38 Super Gov't model was my first 1911. After buying several more 45 ACP Colts I sold it. Just didn't shoot it that much. It became more of a novelty than anything else. I couldn't see buying Super brass when ACP was laying around everywhere at the range. I shoot about 5000 rounds of ACP a year so I'm going to take advantage of free brass when I can.

Other than that I can't see where there should be any other considerations. If you have an itch, I say scratch it.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I am biased about the .38 Super. I currently own two. One is the Citadel and the new Colt 1911 SS Govt. The Citadel like most 1911 .38 Super require an expensive up grade to handle the .38 Super Comp brass.
The new Colt 1911 will fire all 3 .38 Super rounds. The .38 ACP, .38 Super +P and the .38 Super Comp. The heavy webbed .38 Super Comp brass can handle .357 Mag loads.
I don't recommend this. But the Colt will fire 9MM and .380 ACP. Not well but the Colt is amazing. I just bought a set of Crimson Trace grips for the Colt. The Berry's 130 grs. .38 Super bullet works great.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...297DDC85694A17A51679297DDC85694A17A&FORM=VIRE

 

[Rock185]

I'm another Super fan. Bought my first, a new satin nickel Colt Combat Commander, about 1970 or so and have loaded for the Super off and on for over 30 years. The Combat Commander still used the old style Colt barrel. Just the WORST! Flattened and pierced primers, non existent accuracy,etc. It was reliable, but that was it's only positive attribute and I soon let someone else enjoy owning that Colt. This was followed by several more Colts, two Kimbers and an STI in 38 Super. My current Supers, an STI Trojan, Kimber Eclipse Target and Colt Special Combat Govt., don't suffer from trying to headspace the cartridge on the tiny semi-rim and are all fine performers. I would prefer the Colt to have a ramped barrel like my other Supers. IMHO the ballistic advantage of the Super over the 9MM in equal barrel lengths only really becomes apparent with bullets heavier than about 125 grains. Then, only with "boutique" ammo like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, etc. and similar hand loads. In similar length barrels, the Super does not always have an advantage over the best 9MM loads. Anyway, the Supers are easy to load for, display good ballistics, especially with heavier bullets in 5" barrels, and are generally reliable in 1911 type pistols.

BTW, all three of my guns function reliably using 38 Super or 38 Super Comp cases. The Colt and STI just required adjustment of extractor tension. My current Kimber, just like it's predecessor a few years ago, has functioned flawlessly with any and all ammo of any kind I've stuffed in it with no tweaking or adjustments whatsoever........ymmv

 

[Tallball]

I REALLY like my 9mm one. Just sayin'.

 

[grouselips1]

Ditto on the HS6 and to that I would add Accurate Arms #9. The poor accuracy stories are from a bygone era as noted before and are pretty much relegated to being an urban myth these days. Use a chronograph! It will demonstrate it's ability to outrun the 9mm. If you are inclined to experiment with cast bullets, you will have great fun from 90 to 150 grains. As some of the other contributors have noted, a ramped barrel (expensive upgrade) will allow the case head to be fully supported and as such, you can really push the cartridge to it's maximum potential, somewhere close to 1450-1500 fps, with 130 gr. bullets. I have only shot loads at that level from compensated pistols. They bark just a little bit! Buy it.

 

[bannockburn]

Another big .38 Super fan! Typically I like it in a Colt Commander size gun. Nice thing too with a .38 Super 1911 is that with a 9mm. barrel assembly and magazines, you now can run less expensive 9mm. ammo through your gun.

 

[Walkalong]

Another .38 Super fan. Many, if not most, of them will run with the Starline Supercomp brass, while others may need a cheap extractor tweak.

You can get a 9MM barrel for your 1911 .38 Super as well. I did with this Colt. In a bad spot to chase/find brass? Shoot 9MM.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Thanks for the feedback all! I'm pretty well decided on getting the stainless Competition Model in .38 Super, if one can be sourced. Not going to hold my breath but I may cross my fingers.

I had read a little about the rimless variations. In the other threads I turned up it seemed some guns work fine with both while other require extractor tuning. Considering I've picked up 5 stray pieces of Super brass at my local range in the last 10 years, I don't think getting cases mixed in is going to be a problem! However there will be crying if I lose too much of my own brass at first.

Looking at the loading tables it looks like the Super will deliver about what a 9mm +P (or +P+) load will do with 115-125 grain bullets. Which is just about perfect for my tastes, given my 9mm is loaded with 127gr +P+ Winchester Rangers and my .357 with 125gr Remington Golden Sabers (a reduced 357 load). And driving heavier bullets seems to be a place where the Super will really shine over the 9mm.

I'll source up magazines and a holster once I have the Colt in hand. I see magazine availability may be tricky but holsters for 5" 1911s are easy.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I'm a .38 Super fan as well...I like the shiny ones.

One of mine posing on a magazine article about SA's factory nickel version.

And a RIA one.

 

[Sam1911]

Negatives? Well, you'll cry a bit more when you lose brass. You won't be sweeping up hundreds of free .38 Super cases off the range floor or pistol bay the way you can .45 ACP and 9mm. And a load hotter than 9mm isn't much of an improvement in your times unless you're running a compensated gun. (In which case the hotter you go, the flatter it shoots!)

But the great thing is to set it up so you can shoot 9mm for all your range, training, and match time, and carry the .38 Super for "social work."

 

[wanderinwalker]

Negatives? Well, you'll cry a bit more when you lose brass. You won't be sweeping up hundreds of free .38 Super cases off the range floor or pistol bay the way you can .45 ACP and 9mm. And a load hotter than 9mm isn't much of an improvement in your times unless you're running a compensated gun. (In which case the hotter you go, the flatter it shoots!)

But the great thing is to set it up so you can shoot 9mm for all your range, training, and match time, and carry the .38 Super for "social work."

Already on board with the crying about lost brass. My plan is to run 500 rounds or so of factory ammo for functional break in and brass accumulation. And I'll probably be acquiring 500 pieces of Starline brass at some point.

Oh, yeah, so I have a stainless Colt Competition in 38 Super on the way and should be picking it up before next weekend! I'll definitely post pictures once it arrives. I have a couple of 10-round Checkmate mags on the way and a set of Lee dies as well. It was a pleasant surprise when I looked up and saw the Super uses the same shellholders as 9mm Luger, which I'm already set-up for. This looks to be one of the simplest caliber additions I've ever added to my loading bench.

More questions: how reliable is the 9mm conversion? Is it really just a second barrel and set of magazines away? Should the 9mm barrel run it's own bushing? If so I'll have to ask the local gunsmith how much to fit a 9mm barrel at some point in the future.

 

[Walkalong]

I use a separate bushing with my 9MM barrel. Simply made sense to me. Mine will run with .38 Super brass, .38 Super Comp brass, or 9MM with no tweaks. Maybe I got lucky. Both are very reliable. Get good 9MM mags.

 

[bannockburn]

wanderinwalker

For my 9mm. barrel I have always bought a complete barrel assembly. Currently I have a Storm Lake 9mm. barrel and bushing for my Colt Commander and I have a bunch of Colt 9mm. mags for it too. I use the .38 Super recoil spring and haven't had to do any tweaking with the extractor or ejector. It's super reliable with any 9mm. ammo.

 

[Rock185]

wanderin, I've done three Colts that I can recall, and a Kimber one time just to test for reliable function and determine if there were any issues with a Kimber conversion that didn't arise in the Colts. There weren't. The 9mm versions can be just as reliable as the parent Super 38 pistol. I did always use a 9mm barrel/bushing assy. and 9mm magazines. A slightly extended 38 Super ejector, as used by STI and Kimber for instance, works perfectly for the 9mm. If Colt is still using that non-extended Govt. length ejector in their Supers, that one is marginal for use with a 9mm conversion. Ejection is very lazy and I suspect malfunctions would occur with some more lightly loaded factory or hand loaded ammo. As bannock indicated, factory 38 Super recoil springs are generally fine. That is, unless you want to run that lightly loaded ammo I mentioned. More often than not, I use 16# recoil springs in the Supers and 14# in the 9s. Other weights have sometimes worked best in a particular pistol. Anyway, other than initially making sure you have an ejector length that works with both calibers, and sometimes adding a bit more tension to the extractor, these 38S/9mm conversions are simple, reliable, and of course Great Fun.