.38 Super Experiences/9mm 1911 Experiences

[ryan3465]

Hello All,

I've been pondering on what my next gun purchase will be. I'm torn between calibers and platforms. I would really like to get something in .38 Super, but i have had NO experience with that cartridge and would love to get some honest opinions on the cartridge from folks on here. The gun will mainly be used for target shooting, and perhaps concealed carry at some point. I do know that if i go with .38 Super I'm pretty much confined to the CZ or 1911 platform if im not mistaken. Any experiences or advice would be greatly appreciated. I will be reloading for this round if i do decide to go the .38 Super route.

For an alternative, I was interested in getting another 9mm if i don't go with the .38 Super. I already have a Sig P226 in 9mm and in order to change it up a bit, i was going to go with a 9mm in the 1911 platform. Having limited experience with the 1911 platform in general, I was wondering if anyone could share their thoughts or experiences on the 9mm/1911 combo. Thank you everyone!

-Ryan

 

[TurtlePhish]

.38 Super is a pretty hot cartridge and hits a bit harder than the 9mm with not too much more recoil. It's made a bit of a comeback in IPSC and USPSA lately- it can knock down steel targets with one shot with less recoil than comparable cartridges.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The .38 Super is expensive if you don't reload.
It gives a little more speed than the 9MM with the same diamiter bullet but is no where near the .357 Magnum in power.

The 1911 is too big and heavy for just 10 rounds of 9MM unless you shoot IDPA and are limited to 10 rounds and no compinsators. In that sport you need a heavy gun to dampen recoil and the lightest round you can get away with.The 9MM 1911 has found a nich in that game. Beyond that I see no reason for it because you can find lighter 9MM pistols that hold twice as many rounds. Have you looked into the excelent Browning Hi-Power?

 

[ryan3465]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I willbmost likely get the Hi-Power if I go with 9mm. I had a Hi-Power once and it was a great gun. I'm leaning toward the super now though just because I love oddball calibers.

 

[Demitrios]

If you like oddball calibers then look into Rock Islands .22 TCM. It's a 9mm necked down to .22, it comes with a 9mm barrel and corresponding recoil spring when you buy it AND you can convert it to .38, a caliber RIA produces on their own, by the exact same methods. Plus if I'm not mistaken the magazines are interchangeable. The only catch is it's only sold in double stack.

 

[bannockburn]

ryan3465

I have always been fascinated by the .38 Super cartridge, especially in a Commander size gun. Just seemed to be the overlooked and forgotten caliber for many years before it found its revival in the various shooting competitions. Some friends of mine had .38 Supers which they handloaded for to get better performance over the factory ammo, and before too long I was hooked on the caliber too.

Then back in the early '80s I read an article where the author was developing hotter handloads for the 9mm. using a Colt Government with a Bar-Sto barrel as his test platform. He also mentioned that by using a gun chambered for the .38 Super, with the just the addition of a 9mm. barrel assembly and magazine, you had a two caliber convertible in one gun. This was great because I could now use cheaper 9mm. ammo for practice and added to the overall versatility of the gun.

 

[Walkalong]

I do not know if you can do it with a CZ, but with a 1911 you can have 9MM & .38 Super in the same gun with a barrel swap, and sometimes a mag swap.

 

[dom1104]

I shoot too much for a 38 super, not to mention it is near identical in speed to a hot 9mm out of a 5" barrel.

Someone is going to chime in that it it 50-100 fps faster...

I am talking about practical speed differences.

 

[dom1104]

I have thousands of rounds thru my 9mm 1911, not a single malf not attributable to a oversized reload.

I have had 5 squibs, 32 failures to go into battery, and zero FTE.

All of those squibs and FTGIB were while we were learning to reload

 

[BYJO4]

I also enjoy shooting my 9 MM on the 1911 platform. I have found it too be very accurate and the trigger on a 1911 is superior to that of a HP.

 

[2zulu1]

I didn't get to this point overnight, but the Super is capable of 357mag performance loaded with 357mag bullets. Scroll down to post #36 for a short explanation with some nice pictures.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606797&page=2

Handloading the Super costs about the same as the 9mm, but there's a huge performance difference if you choose to load it so.

I tested some Hornady data and found that a number of their loads failed to reliability operate the slide in both a Colt and Para 1911 Government. If you choose to buy the Super, I recommend buying both the current Sierra #5 and VihtaVuori #4 manuals, Sierra because it has a lot of powder data and VihtaVuori because of its bullet selection.

 

[wally]

Handloading the Super costs about the same as the 9mm, but there's a huge performance difference if you choose to load it so.

IMHO main problem reloading .38 super is finding your slightly longer brass among all the 9mm brass people leave behind

 

[surjimmy]

2zulu1, Les Baer, Ted Yost, and Chuck Warner told me the same thing. That is why back in the rob and car chase days, the police were putting up their 38's and buying 38 Supers. 38's would not go through the car doors, but the Super will. It is not a 357 mag, but with some loads you are in the same class.

 

[Casefull]

I recently picked up a 38super kimber with 4in barrel. I love the gun and it is a real tackdriver. A little better even than my other kimbers. 500 cases from starline for $75 shipped is not to bad. It gives me a reason to shoot up some of my 9mm bullets. Chronoed some 124hp at 1390 fps yesterday... with a 4" barrel. I will carry with 147 hornady at about 1200fps. It is like a junior version of my 10mm's. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Rock185]

Hello ryan, I freely admit I am biased in favor of the 1911 type pistols. I have owned Colt, Springfield, Kimber and Dan Wesson 1911 type pistols in 9mm. I've done quite a bit of shooting, loading and chronographing with 9MM and .38 Super, and some with the 9X23MM Winchester.

I currently have two Springfields, a Kimber and a Dan Wesson PM-9 in 9mm. All my current 1911 type guns have ramped barrels. All are reliable and very accurate. Within my experience the Colts, with the traditional unramped barrels, take a bit of effort to attain reliability. The ramped barrels seem to be the secret for reliability in the 1911 9MM type pistols. I have had good luck with the standard Kimber , Dan Wesson/Checkmate and MetalForm/Springfield "front ramp" type 9MM magazines.

Ballistics: In modern factory ammo, I have not found most .38 Super factory ammo to be superior to available factory 9MM ammo, especially if you get into the +P and +P+ 9MM ammo. This is not something I heard on the internet or from some gunshop commando, I have actually chronographed quite a bit of this stuff.

One comparison,using some of the warmer ammo available for both calibers, comes to mind. Using Kimber Target II pistols, identical except for caliber, I chronograped CorBon 125 grain 9MM and .38 Super ammo. The Super averaged 1314 fps. The 9MM averaged 1339 fps. It seems to me that the ballistic advantage of the Super might be in it's ability to push the 147 grain and heavier bullets to higher velocities safely, than the 9MM can at safe pressures.

Much as I like the .38 Super, and the 9X23MM, I'd go with 9MM. I have HI Powers, my first purchased about 1966 or '67, and am a real BHP fan. I used to collect them. Wonderful pistols. For a heavy duty pistol, easily convertible from 9MM to Super, or vice versa, I still give the edge to the 1911. But, you can't go wrong if you decide to go with the FN Hi Power IMHO... ymmv

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I've got a .38 Super Colt Commander, circa 1973, but don't shoot it much anymore. If you're thinking about a BHP, I had my "Ultimate" Hi-Power built a few years ago in .357 Sig. You can get a nice trigger on a BHP if you wanna' spend the $$$. If you're looking to run HOT ammo in a Hi-Power you might consider starting with one chambered in .40 S&W. It's a little beefier in the right spots (extra barrel lug, etc.) and adding 9mm conversion barrel lets you run +P without worry of over-pressure. I also have a shooting bud who, after shooting my .357 Sig BHP, has a .357 Sig 1911 in-process. IMHO, it's just an interesting (and quite effective) caliber.

 

[squarles67]

I have 2 Colt 1911 in 38 Super and love them.

You're going to reload so it would be a no-brainer for me. Super all the way

 

[JimStC]

If you like different calibers, Rock made an interesting point when he mentioned the 9x23. I have a Baer 5", with two barrels. One is in 38 Super and one in 9x23. I reload both calibers and enjoy both. Actually you could have a third barrel made in 9mm and run all three calibers on one platform.
If you are not familiar with the 9x23, it might be worth some research.
Good luck on your selection!

 

[surjimmy]

Your in luck, a member here (CWarner) was the first smith to build a 9X23 in a 1911. I bought a custom Delta Elite from him a few years ago, one of the best pistols I have ever owned.

 

[TonyAngel]

surjimmy, how do you know that CWarner was the first? I'm just asking because I know that my smith built one as soon as the reamer was available for it? He just used a barrel chamber for super and opened the chamber up for the straight walled case.

In any case, the 9X23 is a nice round. It's, I believe, ballistically identical to the super (in terms of what can be handloaded), but addresses a couple of the issues that the super had. First, the super has a tapered case. Second it is semi rimmed. These two characteristics made some guns finicky with some magazines.

Personally, I'd go with the 9mm. With modern powder and a fully supported chamber, you'd be surprised at the amount of performance that you can get out of a 9mm. Super and 9X23 brass is comparatively expensive. Yeah, you can get 1000 pieces to start with, but believe me, you're going to be hunting every piece at the range.

Unless you have a specific purpose for getting a super, I'd just get the nine. To get the advantages of a super, you're going to have to make sure that you have a firearm with a fully supported chamber and you're going to have to handload. If you handload, you're going to have to load pretty hot to get appreciably more performance than you will out of a 9mm. When you load that hot, the brass isn't going to last very long either.

I know that the only reason that I shot a super was because it could be loaded to major power factor and it operates at a relatively high pressure and produced a lot of gas, which made my compensator work really well. The gun shot flat for open class. Whe shooting limited, I MUCH preferred a .40 or .45 loaded to major power factor because it was easier to make power factor and MUCH more pleasant to shoot with heavier bullets and faster powder that ran a lower pressures and produced less gas.

 

[surjimmy]

Tony, he told me and I have no cause to doubt him. On the other hand, since I don't personally know him I looked it up. I can't find the wright up, but will give him a call and see it he will post it. He built it for some famous shooter, but I can't recall his name.

 

[TonyAngel]

surjimmy, I was just asking. Not that it makes any difference.

 

[Cowboybootnut]

Personally, one of the last guns that I would buy is a 9mm in a 1911. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the 9mm, and I love the 1911. I have several 9mm guns, Glocks, Bersas, KelTec, Ruger, CZ, etc. I have several 1911s, Colt, SA, Sig, etc.

I have a .38 Super in Colt and Auto Ordinance 1911s and I love the combo. The .38 Super is a good SD caliber (if you reload), and the 1911 is a close to perfection as humanly possible.

 

[TonyT]

I shoot 38 Super in revolvers where recovering the fired brass is not an issue. 38 Suoer brass is quite expensive compared to the readilly obtainable 9mm brass. In semi auto's I shoot 9mm both in 1911 and other platforms.

 

[farscott]

I really like the 9x19 and the 9x23 in the 1911. 9x19 is accurate, inexpensive to shoot, and is quite tame in a heavy 1911. 9x19 is easy to find, easy to reload, and just plain fun.

9x23 allows .357 Magnum performance (147-grain bullets at 1400 fps, 124-grain at 1450 fps) without concerns about weak cases ("Super face"). The brass is expensive and sporadically available, so I usually get mine by buying cases of the Winchester "USA" factory ammo. The brass is very strong and lasts; I lose more cases than I cull. I keep two cases of Winchester ammo as my buffer. When I open one, time to buy another case. I shoot a lot more 9x19 than 9x23, so my 9x23 gun has a 9x19 barrel, bushing, and recoil spring.