.38 vs. 357

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flexible

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Hi everyone, flexible here. Been loading for decades (.45 & 38 Super for me and .38 wadcutter for my wife & my brother). Looking to buy my own 357/38 S&W and i have a LOT of .357 brass.
Thinking of simplifying and loading up .357 brass with Speer wadcutters for target & plinking.
Does anyone know if there are advantages/disadvantages to loading .357 as target ammo?
thanks
flexible
 
Getting wadcuters to load in 357 is not actually fun. I would recommend an swc which will still give you clean circles on paper but is very multi purpose. Considering powder is .5 cents per grain it's not even worth worrying about. Grab a fast burner and plink away.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet Casting/
This book has a ton of knowledge and discusses bullet design heavily
 
I figured the carbon ring might be eliminated, making cleaner easier.
I was also speculating that since the bullet wouldn't have to jump that little gap from a .38Spec case to the barrel it might be more accurate? probably a tiny effect anyway.
 
flexible said:
Hi everyone, flexible here. Been loading for decades (.45 & 38 Super for me and .38 wadcutter for my wife & my brother). Looking to buy my own 357/38 S&W and i have a LOT of .357 brass.
Thinking of simplifying and loading up .357 brass with Speer wadcutters for target & plinking.
Does anyone know if there are advantages/disadvantages to loading .357 as target ammo?
thanks
flexible
Click to expand...
AJC1 said:
I would recommend an swc which will still give you clean circles on paper but is very multi purpose.
Click to expand...
This. DEWC's, HBWC's and BNWC's in a .357Mag case makes reloading a bit less fun. A SWC makes shooting much more fun and, like AJC says, much more a multipurpose bullet.

NB: edited to "a bit less fun" since it's really not awful getting flat nose .357Mags into the cylinder.
 
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The only advantage is 357 cases are all I have and I’m not willing to trim them enough to be 38 cases. Ive been loading Hornady HBWC for a couple weeks and accuracy is enough that I giggle every time I look at my targets. Maybe 38 would be laugh out loud? I don’t know if it might improve.

I haven’t noticed them being troublesome to load. The case trim length and COAL being basically the same was a little weird. I use a minimum load of W231 or CFE Pistol based on the load data on Hodgdens web site.

I am considering switching to a SWC or SWC Hollow-point, but not until my HBWC supply is nearly gone.
 
flexible said:
Hi everyone, flexible here. Been loading for decades (.45 & 38 Super for me and .38 wadcutter for my wife & my brother). Looking to buy my own 357/38 S&W and i have a LOT of .357 brass.
Thinking of simplifying and loading up .357 brass with Speer wadcutters for target & plinking.
Does anyone know if there are advantages/disadvantages to loading .357 as target ammo?
thanks
flexible
Click to expand...
One frequent process is to load some 357 to shoot first (just to retain mental picture of where POI is if using for personal/home defense), then switch to much more pleasant shooting 38 for lion share of practice. This way the carbon ring won't interfere with 357 case, by cleaning post-practice session.
 
DMW1116 said:
Off topic for this thread but what is a carbon ring? Is it unique to revolvers? I only have one so I’ve not heard of it before.
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Combination of wax coating from soft lubes and graphite flash suppressant found in most powders. When the bullet leaves the case mouth, the base begins expanding and the wax + powder can leave a ring - more of a smear or skid mark, really - at or near where the case mouth meets the chamber wall. I consider it a minor annoyance. Some folks find it downright aggravating. Some other folks think it's a dangerous and almost criminal thing to let happen.
Try a few out for yourself and see what you think. Use old-style wax lubed soft lead bullets and a really low-powder (book) load of 2400 in a .38Spl case with a 148gr. HBWC. Run about three cylinders though then load up some .357Mag cases and see if you can feel "The Ring."
 
DMW1116 said:
Off topic for this thread but what is a carbon ring? Is it unique to revolvers? I only have one so I’ve not heard of it before.
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Good question. Short answer: the 38 Spl case is shorter than 357. Leaves fouling in revolver cylinder that may/will interfere with the longer 357 case. So if shoot a lot of 38's first and then don't clean, it MAY be an issue. You want the bullets to released from the case the same each time, under same pressure. This fouling ring may, not only make inserting rounds into cylinder tougher, increase pressure dangerously that's necessary to propel bullet out of case.
 
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DMW1116 said:
Off topic for this thread but what is a carbon ring? Is it unique to revolvers? I only have one so I’ve not heard of it before.
Click to expand...
Carbon ring in a revolver and a rifle are basically the same thing, but where they are located and danger vs annoying factor is much different. The best news is a solid cleaning process is the answer to both. I never really herd of it in rifle until the I wont clean until it starts effecting accuracy crowd showed up. Bore scopes also showed what clean really was.
 
Damn. Now I gotta clean guns. I found some factory 38 Special and shot a few to see how they worked.
 
I have put thousands and thousands of rounds shorter than the chamber through revolvers and have never had an issue with this so call carbon ring. I am not saying they don't exist, just that they are not typical and are usual a result of really poor quality ammunition and really bad cleaning habits. And I say that as someone that is not a religious gun cleaner. I routinely go 1000+ rounds between cleanings. This probably is over blown by the internet IMHO.
 
I only shoot 357 LSWC for my target loads, MBC BE#2 185gr or BE#1 200gr, behind 4.8gr WST. Soft shooting and very accurate. With WST there is only 0.1gr difference between 38sp and 357mag. Can be loaded the same level as a 38 spl and will not cause a issue, just a little slower.
 
I got an S&W Model 610 (10mm Auto) revolver recently. I have not shot it much but over Thanksgiving we put 25-30 40 S&W rounds through the gun and I could not chamber the 10mm ammunition until I cleaned the gun. It is a first time for me, I've never had the problem with 38 Spl in a 357 Mag chamber.

I usually shoot cases in a gun that the gun is chambered for. I have several revolvers that can shoot shorter cartridges in several different chamberings.

I'm just saying.

For the OP, if you load wadcutters now in 38 Spl cases, you should not have any problems loading them in 357 Magnum cases. Just prep the cases the same way as you prep the 38 Spl. cases.

Up the powder a little but be careful to not increase the load much if you load hollow base wadcutters. Too much increase in velocity may blow the skirt off the bullet that may get stuck in the barrel.

A deep dive of this forum and/or an internet search my yield what some other folks are doing relative to target level powder charges.
 
mcb said:
I have put thousands and thousands of rounds shorter than the chamber through revolvers and have never had an issue with this so call carbon ring. I am not saying they don't exist, just that they are not typical and are usual a result of really poor quality ammunition and really bad cleaning habits. And I say that as someone that is not a religious gun cleaner. I routinely go 1000+ rounds between cleanings. This probably is over blown by the internet IMHO.
Click to expand...
Exactly my experience.
 
flexible said:
I figured the carbon ring might be eliminated, making cleaner easier.
I was also speculating that since the bullet wouldn't have to jump that little gap from a .38Spec case to the barrel it might be more accurate? probably a tiny effect anyway.
Click to expand...
Will still have a carbon ring just a little farther out i the chamber. I load 148 Gr. HBWC and DEWC in 357 Mag. with 800X and HP38.
 
mcb said:
I have put thousands and thousands of rounds shorter than the chamber through revolvers and have never had an issue with this so call carbon ring. I am not saying they don't exist, just that they are not typical and are usual a result of really poor quality ammunition and really bad cleaning habits. And I say that as someone that is not a religious gun cleaner. I routinely go 1000+ rounds between cleanings. This probably is over blown by the internet IMHO.
Click to expand...
The load I suggested should create a discernible “carbon ring”. Maybe.
 
flexible said:
Looking to buy my own 357/38 S&W and i have a LOT of .357 brass.
Thinking of simplifying and loading up .357 brass with Speer wadcutters for target & plinking.
Does anyone know if there are advantages/disadvantages to loading .357 as target ammo?
Click to expand...
I assumed from this he intends to load .357 cases, so no carbon ring worries, or did I miss something?
 
If you have plenty of 357 brass you can load whatever you want in it, I’d just separate them in some discernible way. Maybe 38 target loads use one bullet, 38 hunting loads use a different bullet, and the same thing for multiple 357 loads.

I had an issue with the carbon ring two times in the past, both times were easily corrected at the range with a chamfered 357 case(inside only) that I kept in the range bag just in case.
 
The only advantage I see is maybe accuracy because the bullet is closer to the forcing cone. I am testing this now with .38 special reloads seated at the second grease groove. This cartridge is about the same length as a .357 seated with a wadcutter. Compared to a .38 with a wadcutter seated at the first grease groove, I had better accuracy. Whether I seat the bullet deeper with a lower charge is possible but I didn't notice an improved printed group in my tests by doing so..
 
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