.38 Wadcutter Loads...Mistake?

[telecaster1981]

Hey Guys,

Just got done loading some rounds at the bench tonight and feel like I may have made a mistake! I had some plated double ended wadcutters I wanted to load up for my Detective Special so I made quick reference to my handy Sierra manual. Of course, Sierra doesn't make a .38 wadcutter, so I took my numbers from the low end of the 158gr data thinking this would keep me out of pressure troubles. So, I loaded up 60 rounds with ~3.3gr Bullseye. Conventional wisdom is that 2.7gr Bullseye is about right in a .38. Are my loads too much or am I being a worry wart?

 

[ReloaderFred]

You're being a worry wart. Your load will be fine, though a little warm for most target work.

You should also get yourself the Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Manual, where it has enough information to cover your needs in a case like this. While it doesn't specifically address plated bullets, you can extrapolate enough data to get the information you require.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[telecaster1981]

Whew! Good deal! So, am I even in +P territory with these loads? I don't mind having 'warm' loads, but I don't want to stress out my Detective Special either! It may very well be the best .38 EVER and I want it to be around a long time! Ha!

 

[cdrt]

My old Lyman book shows a load for 3.7 grains of BE with a 141 grain cast bullet moving at 937 fps. They also show a 150 grain cast bullet with 3.6 grains of BE moving at 811 fps. I'm guessing you're well below 900 fps.

Just don't goof and use your 3.3 grain load with a HBWC; it would be a little too hot and you'd get some leading since HBWCs are pretty soft. IIRC the max for a HBWC is 3.1 grains of BE.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

I use 3.5gr bullseye with a 158 SWC but your wadcutters are seated much deeper than my SemiWadcutters this will increase pressure.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Alliant Load Data Site lists a 2.8gr Bullseye for a 148gr LWC with a velocity of 815 fps and 15,900 PSI. They list their 148gr LWC target round charge at 2.7gr and 785 fps.

According to that data your charge of 3.3gr which is .5gr higher than the listed charge might push the pressures over 17,000 PSI. (but I could be wrong) Normally I wouldn't worry too much but parts for the Colt DS and knowledgeable Colt Gunsmiths are both in short supply.

Why not shoot those rounds in another revolver and make up some lighter rounds for your Detective Special?

 

[dagger dog]

I shoot 3.5 gr Bullseye, 158gr LSWC, but the seating is way different than the wad cutter.

The older manuals seem to have higher pressure loads, I don't know if it's for liability problems, but a lot of load data has been reduced in recent manuals.

Gilded, plated, jacketed bullets, espically wad cutters, becase they have such a large bearing surface, take higher pressure to drive them through the rifeling.

Haven't seen it in print in many years ,but Bullseye has had its share of the lime light, about causing pressure spike problems, not saying nothing bad about the powder.

To be on the safe side I woud pull and chalk it up to experiance.

 

[telecaster1981]

To be on the safe side I woud pull and chalk it up to experiance.

That's the plan...but how the heck do you pull a flush seated wadcutter??? Perhaps I'll just save these loads for when I buy a .357 this summer. Should be safe in a Ruger SP101, eh?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Don't fret about shooting these loads in your Detective Special. The Lyman 48 Edition Reloading Manual, which is the latest version, Lists a 150 grain linotype wadcutter over 3.5 grains of Bullseye at 925 fps, and 16,400 CUP. Your load is lighter than that, so go ahead and shoot them. Your plated bullet is going to be about the same as that linotype bullet in terms of friction. Not exactly the same, but close enough. There's no need to pull those bullets, but if you do, you'll have to use an inertia bullet puller to do it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[sargenv]

You can't use a collet puller for wadcutters but you can use a kinetic puller. Midway has them for like $20 give or take a few bucks. You can probably pull 2 or 3 a minute if you get good at it. It's like a modified hammer.

 

[rcmodel]

ReloadFred said:

You're being a worry wart. Your load will be fine, though a little warm for most target work.

+1
Fogadaboutit, and just shoot them!

You can load 4.2 grains Bullseye with a 168 grain cast bullet if you want too.

The old 2.7 load was used a lot for target shooting.
But only because it got the bullet out of the barrel every time, and was exceptionally accurate.

Not because it was anywhere near a max load.

3.3 grains won't even blow all the dust off your Colt Detective Special.

rcmodel

 

[joneb]

My Hornady manual shows 148 LDEWC case trim length 1.145" C.O.L. 1.165" Start charge 3.0gr of Bullseye and 3.7gr as MAX.
I have loaded 3.5gr of Bullseye w/a 148 LBBWC with good results in a S&W model 10-5.

 

[telecaster1981]

As always, thanks for the great info! I'll probably go ahead and shoot these up but back my charge down in the future. Or, if all of a sudden I'm shooting groups like Jibjab's, I might just keep that load!

 

[brickeyee]

If they are copper plated they should be fine.
Harder lead would also be fine.
swaged might lead the barrel a little, but it is not hard to remove.

148 HBWC (and even double ended target wad cutters) are often swaged from pure lead and are dead soft.
This limits the velocity to prevent leading, not for any other reason.

 

[Thirties]

Plated wadcutters require a greater load than lead wadcutters. That is something you can and should check with the bullet makers. Call Berry's.

Relax.

 

[rcmodel]

Call them and the girl on the phone will read you this.
It's on thier website:

"*How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."

If anything, according to Berry, telecaster1981's load is right where it should be with plated bullets!

rcmodel

 

[Cosmoline]

It really doesn't sound overloaded, but you should of course use a chrono when working these loads up.

 

[Ceemack]

Your post reminds me of the old saying "Sure, I'm being paranoid. But am I being paranoid enough?"

It turns out that you probably don't have anything to worry about, but it seems to me you didn't worry nearly enough to start with.

You loaded 60 rounds of an untested load?

You didn't locate load data from a reputable source to tell you what was safe and what wasn't?

You didn't work up incrementally to your desired load from a published starting load?

If those are your usual habits, you've got a lot more to worry about than you think.

 

[telecaster1981]

Ceemack,

You may be right...perhaps...

Like I said, I consulted my Sierra Manual and used the starting load of a heavier weight bullet, which is usually a good way to stay out of trouble. 60 rounds seems like a good start for testing to me and I had no intention of going any higher than 3.3gr, which seemed rather conservative according to the manual. I've loaded lots of rounds now and never had any type of mishap. Not even any pressure signs. I think my habits are typically A-OK...I just second guessed myself this time and wanted to get some expert advice on the INTERNET! There's a reputable source! HA...JK...but thanks for your concern.

 

[joneb]

I use 3.5gr bullseye with a 158 SWC but your wadcutters are seated much deeper than my SemiWadcutters this will increase pressure.

Amen. WC and SWC are two different critters, You can't go by bullet weight.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

60 rounds seems like a good start for testing to me

I usually won't load more than 20 rounds of a new load for testing.

I've loaded lots of rounds now and never had any type of mishap. Not even any pressure signs.

Since .38 Special brass can easily handle well over 21,000 psi (which is over the current SAAMI limits for the .38 Special +P) you won't see any pressure signs if you load a round that is over the standard pressure for a .38 Special, even though such a round could cause damage to an older revolver. (remember, I said could)

I just second guessed myself this time and wanted to get some expert advice on the INTERNET! There's a reputable source! HA...JK...

Now there you have something entirely true. You would have to be crazy to trust any load data you get from someone on a forum, even a top shelf forum like this one. You should always independently verify data you get from people you don't know.

 

[RustyFN]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but it seemed like a good place for this question. I am looking in my Speer #13 manual for information reguarding the OP. I noticed a big difference in 148 grain WC and was hoping somebody could explain why. They have,
148 grain BB-WC, .358 dia, Bullseye start 3.9, max 4.5
148 grain HB-WC, .358 dia, Bullseye start 2.8, max 3.1

Why is there such a big difference in powder for two bullets the same weight and prifile.
Rusty

 

[rcmodel]

One is a solid bevel-base bullet, and one is a hollow-base bullet.

Hollow-base wadcutters can blow out the center, or shed the skirt if driven too hard.

rcmodel

 

[specops]

telecaster1981,
2 factors not mentioned but extremely important in using 38 wadcutters are age and condition of the brass and crimp. A lot of shooters seat wadcutters flush with the case mouth and don't crimp. I witnessed a kaboom on a fine Model 15 S&W. Load 3.0 grs of Bullseye and a 148gr bevel base wadcutter. The brass used was of unknown age and didn't have enough tension to hold the bullets seated flush with the case mouth. Recoil pushed one down in the case and result was top strap bent and fractured, firing chamber gone and the top half of the 2 adjacent cylinders. Examining some of the unfired rounds still in the box, I could push the bullet into the case with just a tap of my fingernail. Suspect the brass never got resized before reloading though the unlucky owner insists it did. If you are not using new brass or not using the crimp grove on the bullet, reloader beware. I suspect this to be the cause of more kabooms with Bullseye target loads than double charges which are usually blamed.

 

[rcmodel]

Good point!

Factory loaded HB wad-cutter ammo used to always have a case cannelure below the bullet base as I recall.

rcmodel