.380 Pocket auto survey - which would you prefer and why?

If you could only have one...

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If anyone who has shot these can comment on the trigger/shooting-experience it would be really helpful!

Seecamp LWS380 - tiny but comparatively heavy, bottom-mounted mag release, point-and-shoot only - no sights!

Kahr P380 - second smallest in length, but tallest in height, optional Tritium sites!

Ruger LCP - roughly same weight as Kahr, but fractionally shorter in height and longer in length, recall of both the LCP and SR9 due to possible AD is not an inspiration to get a Ruger pocket-auto.

KelTec P3-AT - lightest .380, but also largest of the four in this survey, finish quality is the lowest too (the mold seam around the grip is not even sanded down!)
 
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I've shot my LCP and find that it is definitely a last ditch resort weapon. The trigger is not easy to actuate and breaks very... opposite of crisply. However, for what it was intended to do, it's fine. The gun disappears into a pant pocket and you forget it's there.

The new production has no AD problem, they've recalled the old ones already. If you're not sure, go to Ruger's website and check for the serial #s affected before you buy one.
 
Pocket 380

I have and tested extensively and still carry , 3 P3at never had a hick up, 1 Ruger LCp recently, Good shooter, They are all nail driver very acurate, light and plesant to carry all day, how ever you choose to carry, I load mine up with Power balls from COR BON at 1100 FPS is the same ballistcs as 9mm, as far as the trigger if you have shot revolver or you are a first time shooter you shouldn't have any problems shooting it, don't concern your self with all this talk of heavy trigger pool, a Si. cam has approx. 9 - 10 pd pool and still is acurate, is in the way you grasp your weapon and trigger control that will affect your acuracy:)
 
I had to vote for the Kel Tec because it's the only one I've had my hands on. I recently got a P-3AT to add to the P32 I've had for years. I've never had a misfire of any kind with either gun yet, and reliability in a backup gun is everything. I've read good about the Kahr, I'll probably try one of them out soon. I wouldn't have aproblem with getting a Kahr.
 
Si means yes in spanish , Seecamp, refering to this pistol, yes the seecamp ballistics:)
 
i like my p3at. after about 200 round break in and some fluff&buff and removing the bersa pinky extenion it is now reliable.
 
I chose the Kahr because I just ordered a CW 9 and I have a LCP and my buddy has a kel tec.
The KAHR has a striker block
The LCP in nice but it has no striker block kel tec is the same
I don't carry one in the pipe on my LCP but it is for deep concealment and I cant get to it fast anyway.
Note the LCP is nice light and shoots good I carry it all the time I just don't trust one in the chamber.I love gun besideds the lack of safety features
 
I voted for the LCP. For "deep concealment" I carry it in my front pocket and if my hand is in my pocket you can't get to your weapon any faster than having it in your hand already!
 
JMOfartO:

In past years I tried the NAA Guardian in 32cal, the Beretta :barf:Tomcat in 32cal the KTP32 and the Seecamp LWS32...

For my needs and tastes the LWS32 became the "keeper" and the others were sold. FWIW the Guardian and PT32 were very good firearms and I would recommend either of them for anyone looking for a 32cal. pistol.. The Tomcat was a first series pos and the CS/Warranty Repair folks at Beretta were, to be generous, "less than helpful"..

Having owned them all I found the Seecamp to be a notch above the others, and my wife and I have both had one now for some time..

I was so pleased with the performance and ease of cc with the LWS32 that I got in line for an LWS380. The LWS380 arrived recently, and I love it. The LWS380 has replaced my LWS32 for daily carry, but I'm sure my wife will stick with the LWS32 because of less recoil in the smaller caliber pistol.

I should think the KT P3AT and it's refined clone the Ruger LCP would either be a good choice in the 380cal, but the new Kahr, imo, is just too new to trust. Most new guns have teething issues, and I expect Kahr to be no different..

Heck, Ruger has had some small teething issues with the LCP and you'd think since it was just a refined P3AT it would be bug free... Not so, new models have bugs, expect them in the Kahr.

For folks who say the LWS380 is too expensive I have no argument with that... The LWS380 is certainly NOT too expensive considering what you get for your money, which is without a doubt the absolutely highest quality, smallest, most reliable mousegun in the world. Is is worth 2 or 3 P3AT's, or 2 or 3 LCP's, or 380 Guardians? It is to me, but might not be to you.

I believe any of these pistols will serve you well.. You will be well armed and well protected with any of them. If that's all you are looking for, then don't waste the additional money on a Seecamp LWS380.

But if you are interested in having what is generally acknowledged as the absolute best of it's type, the money spent on a Seecamp LWS380 is money well spent.

Just personal opinion of course, subjective as I'm a big Seecamp fan, and no attempt has been made at objectivity.. All I can say is every time I leave the house my LWS380 is residing in my back pocket, and that gives me both personal satisfaction in knowing I'm well armed, and even more personal satisfaction knowing I'm armed with a pistol with a reputation for quality, performance and reliability... I consider my money well spent.

Best Wishes, and no offense to those with differing opinions. :)

Jesse

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I'm not going to vote since I only have experience with one out of the four, but I'll share that experience.

I would still have and carry the Ruger LCP if it wasn't so costly to practice regularly with .380 ACP. Although it was not comfortable to shoot, I found it to be a functional, reliable pistol that was accurate enough for SD distances. It was harder not to conceal it given its dimensions and weight.

I have owned and carried Kahr's K9 and PM9. Since I don't know how well they'll implement a similar pistol in a blowback version I won't recommend it sight unseen, but their 9mm subcompact versions are hard to beat in their price range.

jm
 
I had a KelTec and sold it. I have the Ruger LCP which is in my pocket most of the time.

It is not my only carry gun and if I heading our at night, or somewhere more risky than my usual haunts, I take the 638 or the P229 or the Kahr PM40.
 
P3AT for it's conceal ability, reliability and light weight.

All three of my P3ATs have been reliable.
 
grimjaw: the new kahr P380 willnot be a BLWOBACK version, locked breech just like your PM9, Just a scaled down ALOT PM series. realy cool looking and nice to hold also. hard to believe it is smaller than the lcp and kt 380.

They are shipping as of last wednesday to.
 
seecamp, just a damn nice semi, IMO. Not a fan of all steel pocket rockets but you can't take that away from any seecamps. Just super nice guns. Sure you pay more, but you get more to.. damn small to..
 
lets face the facts, none of these tiny little guns are going to be "tack drivers, unless you are 2 feet away. the sight radius (if any) is just way to short. couple that with long heavy trigger pull, and between the two, that about takes the accuracy thing right out of play. but, that is ok, because all of them are meant to be close range personal defense weapons, not 50 yard target guns. what they will do, quite well is launch a hot hunk of lead into someones torso with enough force to penetrate and stop average joe. that is their intended purpose, and they all do their job reasonably well. as for fit and finish. that is mostly fluff. would you really rather have a gun that looks good, or one that works correctly. that being said, i have both a kel-tec p3at, and a ruger lcp. both do a good job of sending a projectile down range. both fit into and disapear in a front or back pocket. both have about the same trigger pull and actuation, and sights. the ruger looks much nicer, but in actual shooting, the kel-tecs grips are easier to get a good hold of the pistol with. the grips have "checkering" that places the points outward (rather than the pressed in points of the lcp) and it is much better in that respect. when actually shooting, the ruger wins the empty case pile battle. the lcp piles all of the cases in pretty much the same area, so it is much easier to recover them for reloading. the kel-tec, will throw empties in every direction for 30 feet. including down the front of your shirt, a real pleasantry for women! al in all, i will carry both, and sometimes, i do, at the same time. for me, on these two at least, it is pretty much a draw. i cant really coment on the other two, except the seecamp is heavier, which would probably would make it easier to shoot.
 
moooose102:

I think a lot of folks who are interested in a small pistol for concealed carry duty get fixated on concerns about the accuracy of their choice, and you see debates all the time about the accuracy of one pistol vs another..

IMO ANY quality pistol that cannot produce center mass hits, just using a "point and shoot" technique at say, three yards or so, would be hard to find, and I wouldn't want one if I could.

Many comments are made on various firearm forums as to how the Seecamp has no external sights, and that's a deal breaker... If they would research the fine pistols they would find that Ludwig & Larry Seecamp DESIGNED the Seecamp as a CLOSE UP, LAST DITCH, self defense weapon.. I consider my Seecamp cc pistol as my "get off me" gun...

The Seecamp is NOT a target pistol. Quite honestly, in 380cal. it's not much fun to shoot.. But it IS the finest, smallest, most reliable pistol of it's type, and somebody must like 'em, because if you placed an order today it would take from 12-16 months for it to show up. Mine took 16 months.

A lack of external sights is not a problem for me as I practice from 3 yards or less, and for those reading this who think 3' isn't very far walk it off sometime, it might surprise you. I expect most confrontations involving the use of lethal force (for non-leo's) is LESS than three feet, happens very quickly, with few rounds expended before a winner and a loser is determined.

No external sights also prevents any "drag" and eases withdrawal of the weapon, and the harsh trigger "bite" of the extremely small pistol is of no consequence in a life or death confrontation.. Or, a small sting to the trigger finger won't be the first thing on your mind under such conditions..

As to reasonable self defense accuracy of the LWS380, here's two photo's taken of the first two mags I fired through my Seecamp LWS380. The first photo represents 6 rounds fired with the cheap(er) Winchester 380 value pack fmj's (my plinking choice) available at your favorite WalMart everywhere, and 6 Speer Gold Dot jhp's (my carry choice).

This was just "point and shoot" from 9 feet..

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There is no doubt that the price of the LWS380 limits the interest in most folks, as there are cheaper pistols in this caliber that will do a fine job for you.. The only explanation as to why the Seecamp line of pistols (25/32/380) is worth the money is simply because they represent the very best of their type. You can argue that until the sun goes down and the cows come home, but that's just a fact.

Lots of folks scoff at the price of the LWS380, until they hold one. Then they want one.. Just the truth.

I'm an old retired fart, living on a pension... There are very few items that represent the very best of their types that I can afford... But luckily, the LWS380 IS one of them.. :)

I would say for anyone new to the gun world that the P3AT's/LCP's/Guardian's/ and I'm sure the new Kahr's are very good pistols. You would be well served with any of them. But if the opportunity comes along to hold, or better yet, shoot a Seecamp, check it out, then get out your wallet...

You just might find having one would be worth paying the price of admission.

Best Wishes, and again no offense to folks who disagree.

Jesse

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I have the seecamp LWS in .32 and would also pick the seecamp LSW in 380. My 2cents:D
 
Have you held the Magnum Research .380? I wanted to find one until I held one two weeks ago. I wasn't impressed and I will often buy a gun just to say I have one and I couldn't get myself to do it on that one.
 
Rohrbaugh R9S Stealth.

As small as an LCP but shoots 9mm, and is only a couple ounces heavier (still a featherweight).
I mostly carry it in an Uncle Mikes #1 holster IWB, but instead of IWB, I carry it in my right front pocket with the clip over the edge of the pocket so just the grip sticks out a little. It conceals perfectly under any shirt I wear that's not tucked in.

I have an LCP as well, but I really like the "no plastic anywhere" and exceptionally high quality build of the Rohrbaugh. With 9mm, I don't feel undergunned with what easily qualifies as a "mousegun".

The Rohrbaugh is also expensive, but from my experience and perspective, well worth it.
I considered the LWS380, but it's almost as expensive as the Rohrbaugh, nearly impossible to get (over a year waiting list), and I liked the idea of a 9mm over the .380.
Click to expand...

The R9S seemed like a contender to me, until it occurred to me that it is not made to fire 9mm +P so it is not significantly ballistically superior to .380 +P and then the additional weight is no longer justified (to me anyway) and for just a few ounces more (albeit with great size increase) you can have a PM45 firing .45 ACP.
 
Have you held the Magnum Research .380? I wanted to find one until I held one two weeks ago. I wasn't impressed and I will often buy a gun just to say I have one and I couldn't get myself to do it on that one.
Click to expand...

What was wrong with it? Ergonomics?
 
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