.380ACP Cor-Bon DPX versus gelatin block

[Brass Fetcher]

Cartridge: .380ACP 80gr. Cor-Bon DPX

Firearm: Recoil-operated semi-auto with 2.75" barrel length

Block calibration: 10.3cm at 593 ft/sec

Single shot fired into gelatin block penetrated to 9.4" (corrected). Expanded diameter was 0.558". Testing was halted due to the underwhelming penetration depth.

 

[McCall911]

An 80 grain .380????

What could have been their reasoning behind such a bullet weight?

No wonder the penetration was, as you say, underwhelming!

 

[wally]

Expansion and underweight bullet insures inadaquate penetration. Penetration is always the problem for .380ACP.

Thanks for sharing your testing. Its always a good read!

--wally.

 

[Narkcop]

?

Let me understand correctly. It expands to .55 cal and penetrates over 9 inches in gelatin that simulates human tisse, and your unhappy with it? Hey it's a .380 ACP! Center Mass and I think that would stop nearly anyone not wearing bodyarmor.

 

[Geronimo45]

FBI tests hold that you need at least 12 inches of penetration, IIRC - in case you have to shoot from a less-than-optimum angle, through an arm/thick clothing, etc. The FBI seem to think that overpenetration may harm others, but underpenetration can harm you - by not stopping the subject.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The bullet is light because of its copper construction. It is so much less dense than lead that to get a bullet of 90 or 95 grains, the case capacity would be so reduced that pressures would skyrocket if trying to achieve typical or higher velocities. In 9mm, Corbon was able to hit 115-gr. with the DPX, but in the lower pressure 45 ACP, 185 grains is it.

I don't know, but feel pretty sure that had Barnes been able to make the 380 DPX in 90 grains that would work in the 380 case, acceptable penetration might have been gained.

Best.

 

[los]

I'm certainly not a Medical Examiner,....but one would be hard pressed to disagree that a .380 projectile penetrating 9.4" into a human upper torso (with expansion) will have a high probability and a propensity to incapacitate.

 

[GunNut]

I'm pretty sure that 9 inches in gelatin does not equal 9 inches in a human body.

Was this shot through denim or any kind of materials that a person would be wearing? Or was this just in the ballistic gelatin?

I would think through denim that the bullet wouldn't expand as much and would probably penetrate deeper.

Steve

 

[McCall911]

It appears to me (but I don't know) that ballistic gelatin wouldn't quite have the tensile strength of human soft tissue. That's why the 12 inches of penetration is significant in these gelatin results. Most human bodies are certainly much less thick, front to back, than 12 inches!

 

[browningguy]

FBI tests hold that you need at least 12 inches of penetration,

Are these the same guys that developed a super duper computer ballistics program some years ago that determined a 9mm was a better stopper than a .45?

I ask because I actually can't remember which federal agency it was, no one seems to be bragging about it any more.

 

[MICHAEL T]

9.4" and 55 cal in 380 out of what was likely a KelTec. Works for me.
I have DPX in all 5 of my 380's If you want 12" use ball No HP 380 that opens is going to go the majic because FBI said so 12" . Before the Fl shotout they said 10 was fine.
As a civ carrying a 380 we face a different threat Were no going after bank robbers . Geting in shoot outs with them ,packing a KelTec, PPK/S ,Bersa. Our shooting will be close and quick. Most of time face to face So 9 inches I belive will be fine. Remember we shoot to stop the threat if he dies in that process ok. If he runs off Fine Job done .
Since many people are killed by 380 and smaller calibers every year May be their should be a inch rule for mouse guns I say 8" is good. Yep DPX looks good to me
When FBI starts packing 380 or 32 then I listen to their advice maybe. Remember they said a 10mm was needed then changed to 40S&W . They also did a report years back that said Glocks weren't good for Police use. Then bought them Like most of our Gov they have no idea what their talking about. Just spending taxpayers money.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/90 grain Federal Personal Defense Hydra-Shok.html

 

[McCall911]

Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok Personal Defense

Average penetration is 12.2 ins, recovered diameter .469 ins. Pretty respectful performance for a so-called "mousegun" caliber! I did notice that there didn't seem to be much cavitation, though.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Lets not use some one else numbers. YOU test Same weapon same range same clock . Make as close as possible to your test of corbon. Thats only fair way . To judge this. Sorry I just don't see the Fed as that good. I stopped useing in my other pistols. Also after bare add couple layers of denim if possible both DPX and Fed.

I find you test interesting and Thank you for time and trouble

 

[usp9]

I bought, tried and carried the DPX in my CCW, a Sig P232, but after reading some other not so complementary articles, I've gone back to the tried and true Silver Tips and Gold Dots. This confirms the bad vibes.

 

[ugaarguy]

Lets not use some one else numbers. YOU test Same weapon same range same clock . Make as close as possible to your test of corbon.

Michael T, if you'll observe our friend JE223 posted a link to HIS website. HE does all the testing posted there, mixes the gel blocks himself, and uses his own chronograph. Please observe that he also calibrates the gel blocks. His test results are adjusted based on calibration, and when they aren't he notes that. Calibration allows us to adjust and normalize penetration for rounds shot into different blocks. Nothing will ever accurately simulate a human body. However, calibrated ballistic gel allows us to compare performance on an even scale. By looking at the performance in gel of rounds known to be good at stopping attacks - such as the 357 Mag 125gr JHPs - and comparing how new rounds perform we can get a better idea of if they should be effective. Ballistic gel is not perfect, but it's good, and it's the best we've got right now.

 

[McCall911]

JE223 undoubtedly goes to a lot of trouble, effort, and money to post these results, something I have neither the time, place, or means to do myself. And to him I am very grateful. He also posts his results online for all to see, free of charge.
Something for us to think about, maybe, before we start demanding what sort of methodology and brands he should use.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

Thank you for the kind words.

MICHAEL T, I do understand your point regarding the concerns about the validity of gelatin testing. However, as a previous poster mentioned, gelatin is the best medium going but is by no means a representation of a human body.

One of the older standards of bullet penetration was bullet penetration in pine boards. Someone who knows what I'm talking about can probably fill in the blanks, but basically, a gun was rated by its bullets performance in terms of boards penetrated. I have seen the Baby Browning manual mention this, as well as an Army document about the M1 Garand. Surely, no one expected to be attacked by pine boards, or to even encounter enemy soldiers using wooden boards as cover. But wood is what trees are made of, and the discriminating soldier uses living trees as cover. So it gave a good idea of what to expect.

I think that you have identified one of the differences between engineering (a 'practical science') and a pure science, such as Physics. The physicist in many cases can work with 'pure' numbers (numbers that are absolutely certain), while the engineer has to work with real measurements (IE "Is that piece of steel 1.000" long or 1.000 +/- 0.0005" long? no one really knows how long it really is), so approximations, like gelatin, have to be made to be practical.

FWIW, I like Cor-Bon DPX, just not in .380ACP out of a 2.75" barrel.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I am sorry I didn't know that was your web site I thought you were showing another test by some one else. Thats why I requested you test I wanted test useing as much of same equipment as possible.

I still belive at SD distance as a civ. the DPX or any good hp in 380(8 1/2 to 12 inch) will be better than Ball. At close range even a 380 ball will likely pass thru body on a frontal shot .Like 38spl LRN or 9mm realy do little damage other than a thru hole. I will stay with my DPX or 90grHP Corbon . I have in my ammo box some of the Federal I carried in the Mustang and PPK/S before I went over to Corbon.. So we will need to agree to disagree on the 380. But please keep posting and I'll keep reading

 

[51Cards]

Cor-Bon DPX out of a Kel-Tec P-3AT --- one of my least-favorite things in life.

Ouch.

A friend tried it, said to just hand it to the BG, tell him to fire it a couple of times --- the pain will make him run.

Silvertips and Federals do enough of a job on the springs in this thing (on set 3, now). The DPX was like a rat trap.

I wouldn't want to be on the front end of it, but I can't stay on the back end enough to get the practice time in.

For the record, among my circle of "crazies" only the Airweight .357 is "less pleasant."

 

[kokapelli]

At close range even a 380 ball will likely pass thru body on a frontal shot .Like 38spl LRN or 9mm realy do little damage other than a thru hole.

JMO, but a hole punched clean through a body and possibly through the front wall and rear wall of a heart is a little more than just "little damage" and probably most of the time will cause psychological incapacitation.!

 

[Soybomb]

Thanks for the test, seems to confirm what I've seen in wetpack tests others have done. I wonder if the longer barrel of a bersa or ppk helps this round out more. I suspect not enough to hit 12".

For now I believe I'm sticking with ball rounds. What are your thoughts on wound channel and truncated cone, flat point, round tip, etc?

 

[Brass Fetcher]

When I first started testing the 'Recoil-operated pistol with 2.75" barrel length', the possibility of finding effective ammunition was looking very bleak towards the end of the testing, when I found that the Hydra-Shok 90gr would work. If I could not get such ammunition, my next choice would have been the Winchester SXT (non-leo version, the .380ACP Talon version is awful in terms of penetration). Me being me, I would have also put a drop of superglue in the cavity of the hollowpoint and then tested it again in gelatin to insure that expansion still took place (sometimes it does not).

Believe it or not, the WWB truncated cone looking stuff might actually be a good, commonly available choice. You will get good penetration and probably a decent enough permanent cavity.

 

[brett30030]

Gun shoot bullet. Bullet hit person. Person fall down. Me happy. Much think make Mongo head hurt. Fire is good.

The internet, so simple even a cave man can use it

 

[enfield]

Are these the same guys that developed a super duper computer ballistics program some years ago that determined a 9mm was a better stopper than a .45?

I ask because I actually can't remember which federal agency it was, no one seems to be bragging about it any more.

Carry what you please. Heck, carry a BB gun!

Cor-Bon DPX out of a Kel-Tec P-3AT --- one of my least-favorite things in life.

Ouch.

That's the reason it doesn't make much sense to carry a super-light pistol and try to shoot hot loads out of it. My little NAA Guardian is solid steel and it's moderately unpleasant to shoot with target loads, let alone hot loads. And yet people ridicule the NAA for being too heavy. It may be heavy compared to the competition, but it's not too heavy for the caliber.