evets_56_98
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Passed on an 1901 US Army Colt revolver today because I couldn’t find 38LC ammo anywhere.Asking price was $500.00.All original,clean barrel and body w/good working mechanics.Sure wish ammo was easier to come by for it.
38LC ammo hard to come by
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.455_Hunter
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Of all the "obsolete" cartridges, this one is among the simplest to fabricate. In fact, in a shoulder-less Colt cylinder, .38 Special brass could be used as is with .38 Colt loads and appropriate seating depth. Not a preferred option, but viable.
OBLIGATORY notice to keep other .38 Special or .357 Mag ammo away from the gun if you would go such a route.
OBLIGATORY notice to keep other .38 Special or .357 Mag ammo away from the gun if you would go such a route.
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Monac
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If 38 Special brass will chamber, would 38 Special factory wadcutter ammo be acceptable?
GeoDudeFlorida
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The .38S&W Special is based on the .38 Long Colt cartridge, NOT the .38S&W cartridge. If you reload, as others have mentioned, you can make 38LC from .38Spl just by trimming to length and loading to appropriate pressures. By 1901, all Colt's revolvers were proofed for smokeless. Look for the "V" on the front-left trigger guard union.
.455_Hunter
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That starts to cross into no-mans land. While the external ballistics of the factory standard .38 Special wadcutter is almost identical to nominal .38 Long Colt, actual pressure is somewhat unknown. Of course, any form of "enhanced" wadcutter loads, like Buffalo Bore or Atomic, would be right out.
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Riomouse911
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If you were to buy one, I recommend trimming all rounds for it to .38 LC length if the cases are made from .38 Spl cases rather than trying to recall which load is for which gun
It’s far too easy to have someone (or even yourself) mix up and grab the wrong round and fire it.
I had it happen when a buddy loaded .44 Mag rounds he fished from my ammo can in his .45 Colt... he thought he reached into his ammo can of .45 Colt.
Luckily his old Vaquero wasn’t an old Colt revolver, other than a ballooned case and a surprise at the increased recoil all was ok.
Stay safe.
It’s far too easy to have someone (or even yourself) mix up and grab the wrong round and fire it.
I had it happen when a buddy loaded .44 Mag rounds he fished from my ammo can in his .45 Colt... he thought he reached into his ammo can of .45 Colt.
Luckily his old Vaquero wasn’t an old Colt revolver, other than a ballooned case and a surprise at the increased recoil all was ok.
Stay safe.
unspellable
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LGS here carries 38 long Colt.
Monac
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Thanks, 455_Hunter. There was a time when I would have just said using 38 Special wadcutters would be OK. I have since learned there are a lot of people here who know a lot more than I do, and that it is best to ask unless I have a solid basis for my opinion.
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TTv2
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lol, twice the price of .38 Special.
GeoDudeFlorida
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But if it’s on the shelf and .38Spl isn’t then maybe it’s worth it. Maybe.
TTv2
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Can't disagree with that, but you could say the same for .45 Schofield, .44 Russian, etc. This isn't about whether it's worth it to pay twice what .38 Spl costs for .38 LC to shoot in a .38 Spl or .357, it's about buying a revolver in .38 LC knowing that factory ammo costs, even during normal times, twice what .38 Spl does.
I reload, so it's not an issue for me, but for those who don't and buy guns to shoot and not own, there's little reason to buy a .38 LC revolver over a Special and that's just on price alone, if it's an issue with availability, that's even worse as we've all found out with ammo the past 12 months.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Good point. I guess I'm so used to thinking as a reloader I didn't consider someone who buys ammo just to shoot.
ThomasT
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If you were about to spend $500 on an old Colt I would just apply that amount to a used model 10 in decent shape and buy that instead. At least ammo is easy to find. Or at least it was before the Kungflu.
John Joseph
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IIRC US Army troopers during the Moro war didn't think very highly of that cartridge!
ThomasT
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I don't know if you can find it online but there was an excellent article by Jack Lott called "The 45 And The Moro's A Myth Exploded". In that article he said at first the troopers were happy with the 38 Colt but as the fighting moved south it got wilder and more aggresive. And yes the 38 Colt failed to stop the "Fuzzy Wuzzy's" but so did the 45 Colt along with the 30-40 Krag rifle. The only for sure nearly 100% stopper was a 12ga loaded with buckshot.
I really think the biggest problem was getting accurate shots on target. I would say that would be some tough shooting when you as a group were walking through the heavy jungle and out of the bushes charged a large group of screaming Machete swinging crazies and you may have three of them all coming for you and you have a rifle in your hands and you are trying to draw a handgun from a flap holster before you are chopped into hamburger. Think of that scene in Last Of The Mohicans when the British are marching out of the fort and then Huron indians attack and slaughter the soldiers.
I wish I could scan and post that article but I suppose its not allowed here.
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TTv2
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^ Now that you mention getting "shots on target" I wonder if the double action Colt was the issue in that these soldiers, probably poorly trained with the new Army sidearm, were shooting with the heavy double action trigger and missing.
When we look at wound cavities and penetration tests of .38 and .45 in ballistic gel today, they both have the same effect, they both poke holes and I doubt the extra .1" in diameter made the .45 more lethal. Of course, at that time ballistic science was shoot live cattle and see how long they took to die.
One thing from the Thompson-LaGarde tests that holds true today is no matter what caliber, shots to non critical areas on a determined attacker will have the same lack of immediate effect and accurate shots were key.
If we lived in a world where no hollow point bullets, fluted nose solid copper or polymer/copper bullets existed, my choice would be a multi ball load in a .45 Colt. They obviously didn't think of this at the time, but two .45 caliber balls moving at 800 fps is nothing to sneeze at and allows for more organ damage and blood loss per each shot.
When we look at wound cavities and penetration tests of .38 and .45 in ballistic gel today, they both have the same effect, they both poke holes and I doubt the extra .1" in diameter made the .45 more lethal. Of course, at that time ballistic science was shoot live cattle and see how long they took to die.
One thing from the Thompson-LaGarde tests that holds true today is no matter what caliber, shots to non critical areas on a determined attacker will have the same lack of immediate effect and accurate shots were key.
If we lived in a world where no hollow point bullets, fluted nose solid copper or polymer/copper bullets existed, my choice would be a multi ball load in a .45 Colt. They obviously didn't think of this at the time, but two .45 caliber balls moving at 800 fps is nothing to sneeze at and allows for more organ damage and blood loss per each shot.
ThomasT
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TTv2 I agree they were probably not trained well at all on handgun shooting. I doubt if they fired a hundred rounds from their guns and at that time double handed shooting was not the fashion. Single handed double action was probably the rule of the day.
They new about multi ball loads. George Washington thought Buck & Ball was the proper load for the Revolutionary soldier long ago. Did they ever load two balls in one case? I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me but I have never seen it in writing.
They new about multi ball loads. George Washington thought Buck & Ball was the proper load for the Revolutionary soldier long ago. Did they ever load two balls in one case? I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me but I have never seen it in writing.
TTv2
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They knew about it with muzzleloaders, but round ball was abandoned after the Minie bullet was made commonplace. Also, I doubt you would have gotten good results with two round balls loaded over black powder and no lube.
The multi ball load in a case is really a smokeless only proposition and by 1900 semi autos were already on the radar.
ThomasT
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Good point. The funny thing is that if they would have just held on to the 38 Colt a little longer until smokeless powder came along it could have been loaded to the same speed and power of the 38 Special if the guns would have took the added pressure. If not they could have just heat treated the cylinders and loaded up with new smokeless ammo. But then a worry would have been someone getting ahold of the new smokeless load and firing it in a gun not able to take the pressure.
GeoDudeFlorida
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The.38Special is a more powerful .38Long Colt lengthened so it will not chamber in lower pressure designs.
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