#4 1nto a 30 40 Kraig

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a303smoker

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hey guys,
i have a Lee Enfield #4 Mk.1 and the bolt thrust pressure is rated around 45000
so i was wondering if anybody has ever rebarreled a stronger action than the Kraig, which i beleve is in the hi 30's with the 30 40 cartridge . thanks guys
 
I am having difficulty understanding where you are going. Are you trying to rebarrel a #4mk1 to 30-40 Krag?
 
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yeah, the 303 British and the 30 40 Kraig round are so close that's it's scary- yet the 303 is loaded up to pressures around 40.000 to 45.000 psi. and the 30 40 Kraig around 37.000 psi. this is due to the maximum bolt thrust pressure that the receiver, and bolt can safely handle. Think of the possibility of loading the 30 40 Kraig around 40.000 to 45.000 psi. in a re-barreled #4 Mk. 1 chambered for the 30 40 Kraig... that would give the .308 a run for It's money , and using the vast arae of .308 bullets
 
I honestly don't see any need to rechamber a SMLE to .30/40 Krag, as it is almost identical in case dimensions to the .303 British. In fact, I have quite a number of .30/40 Krag rounds that I fire-formed from .303 cases. The Krag's neck is longer, but they work fine in my 1896 Krag carbine.
 
Are you talking rebarreling or just rechambering?
As for the .303, Some big, mean things have been hunted and killed with it without any special mods. One thing you might want to try if you want to increase the thump in that old round might be the 210 grain bullets that Midway offers for them. Rechambering probably wouldn't work because you'd still have the original bore and that will mean .311 bullets, which kind of defeats the purpose.
I will say straight up that I don't know whether or not what you are asking is even doable. But IMO, the .303 Enfield is an utterly capable rifle/round combo just as it is.
On top of that, you are also going to most likely be loading above the maximum pressure recommended for 30-40 Krag in the manuals to get the improvements that you are looking for. Loading above max scares the poop out of me and I can't see any reason that I would ever do it. It's just a good way to get yourself blown up. Plus if it can be done, you are talking several hundred dollars worth of gunsmithing and parts.
I'm just thinking that if you want .308 performance out of an Enfield, why not just get an Ishapore?

Sorry for not actually answering your question. Hopefully someone on here who knows more than me can do that for you.
Just thought I would share my $.02.
 
I've read that you can rechamber the .303 to fire 7.62x54R. Apparently the dimensions and chamber pressures are very similar and both use a .311 diameter bullet.
 
the problem ls that most of the .303 bores are from .313 to .315 Dia. and even up to .318 in the Lee Enfield, rifles so you have to slug your barrel to find the right bore size, then try to find a gunsmith who makes special bullets of that size and the're usually around 0.70 0.80 and you're limited to 150 or 180 Gr. Bullets and the commercial round is a .311 Dia. so there goes your accuracy
but if It's rebarreled to a .308 bore you can use anything from 110 to 220 Gr.
 
I'd considered a 30/40 krag conversion years ago . At the time .303 sporting ammo was difficult to find locally and all the available surplus ammo was old and gave many misfires. No. 4 rifles were selling for as little as 12 bucks in good condition, but even the store that sold them didn't carry .303 ammo.
They were selling NIB No 5 Jungle Carbine for 35 bucks, again the only reason I didn't get one was the difficulty in finding ammo. I called every sporting goods store around and nobody had any. I have no idea why, but I do remember that a court case was in the news in which a hunter had been killed when his Enfield blew out at the breech. Probably local stores were leery of the .303 at the time due to product liability.

A few years later I came into possession of a Krag Carbine. The bore was in the worst condition I've ever seen. I couldn't get a bore brush through without stripping off the bristles. Externally and mechanical the gun looked fine.
I couldn't find any gunsmith willing to make a new barrel at any price. Partly because the barrels had left handed threads I'm told. Also Krags had gotten a bad rep because of its single lug design.
I'd given the idea of converting the Krag to .303 some thought then, because good .303 ammo was becoming available and I'd tested the feed using an old .303 round I'd had laying around.
Now days a gun like that can be sleeved to return it to safe operating condition. Wish I'd known that at the time. Though the gun I traded it for was a nice one and probably close to the same collector value.
The guy I traded it to was a Krag collector and had no intention of firing it, otherwise I wouldn't have even considered trading or selling a gun with such a dangerously corroded bore.
From the looks of it, the gun had been used extensively with Cupronickel jacketed ammo and never properly cleaned.
Cupronickel locks in corrosive primer salts which eat away the bore silently over the years. You could see strips of the old jacket material peeling loose from the rotten bore surfaces. I have no doubt that the gun would have blown up if testfired, probably even if all that crap could have been removed.

Rebarreling a number four to 30/40 to make good use of the many .308 bullet types out there is an interesting idea, but good .311-.312 bullets are becoming more available as the resurgence of interest in this round, and of cartridges with similar bore sizes like the 7.62X54 , 7.62X39 ,and 7.65X53, continues to grow.


PS
I do have an otherwise nice No.1 Action that had been rebarreled many times at the Lithgow arsenal according to a friend who knows how to interpret the stampings at the rear of the receiver. When I tried to rebarrel this gun using a new replacement barrel we found that the front of the receiver had been crushed down by the repeated rebarrlings and it could no longer accept a standard barrel.
Since a custom made barrel is in order I figured on having one made in 6.5X57R. The OAL of the 6.5 rimmed is a hair longer than the Magazine will accept but since this would be mostly a handloading proposition I could always seat the bullets to suit the magazine length.
Another cartridge I've considered is the 7mmX30 Waters. Might even go for the good old American 30/30 round for that matter. The action length could be well used in coming up with good loads that couldn't be used in the Leveractions these two last cartridges were designed for.
I'm looking to make a lightweight sporter firing a cartridge suitable for whitetail and usable for a variety of smaller game using handloads taylored for the particular game, Turkey, Groundhog, Squirrels (using cat sneeze loads), etc.

I had begun trying to fit an old two groove No.4 barrel by setting it back a half a thread then rechambering, but I've found that the thread diameters, though similar , are not the same. No.4 threads are a few thousandths smaller in diameter. I might still use this barrel by boring it out to .410 and make the gun into a takedown rifle with both rifle and shotgun barrels.
 
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As to your Krag with the bad barrel, I have seen replacement barrels
made from surplus 03 barrels no idea what kind of machine work needed
to the barrel shank to fit the receiver. Also seen the same rebarreling
on a Swiss rifle, but do not recall the converted caliber.
Seen the Brit number one even rebarreled by Gibbs to 45-70, .410
shot gun. All are lower pressure cartridges.
 
As far as accuracy, I have found the #4's and my #5 are very accurate with the .311 bullets. I even loaded up some 7.62 Russian (.310) 125gr SP's and the accuracy did not diminish. I have found that trying to load to a maximum power/pressure does not provide accuracy. My loads are mid range on the power factor, but are very accurate, even in my #5mk1 Fazakerly.

5a.jpg

#5mk1 @ 100 yards, bench rest on sand bags

150gr Sierra Spitzer, 40gr IMR 4895
 
You may be overthinking it. Do you already have the rifle? You are making remarks in theoretical sense, not "I have a rifle with a groove diameter of.____ and it's a problem making good loads,....." No offense meant, but there are a lot of guys that load good ammo for their .303 guns. How many different loads do you want to have? There are .303 bullets available from 124 gr to 215 gr. If you get a gun with a sloppy bore, get rid of it and find a better one, OR just rebarrel it with a decent barrel. Some guns even shoot good even with worn or oversize bores.


Hey, not that I would discourage anyone from a project, but the .303's can often be made to shoot fine without any special bullets. Unless you did the machine work yourself, or had a friend that did it cheap, and had a donor barrel, you could end up with more in the project than another gun would cost.

The Australians have done a lot of different things with .303's, like necking them down to about anything you can imagine.
 
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