.30-40 Krag in Contender?

[farscott]

While doing a little shopping, I stumbled across a 21-inch Virgin Valley Contender barrel chambered in .30-40 Krag. I have a weakness for U.S. service rifle cartridges and an even bigger weakness for Contenders, so I was intrigued. I have a couple of questions:

1) Can a Contender action handle a .30-40 Krag? If I remember correctly, back thrust, not chamber pressure, is usually the issue for safety in a Contender. Virgin Valley's site does not list the .30-40 Krag as a usual chambereing for the Contender nor does Bullberry's site.

2) Anyone have any experience with this round, preferably in a Contender?

Thanks for any information.

 

[cookhj]

i don't suppose that there would be any problems with it. the contender has barrels up to a .300WM (maybe bigger), so i don't think that the .30-40 krag would be a problem. most loads for it are fairly weak due to the fact that pretty much the only rifle that is chambered in it is the krag-jorgensen, and if i remember correctly, it isn't all that strong of a rifle.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The Contender has .300 Win. Mag. barrels?

Are you sure?

That's one mongo cartridge for a contender...

 

[MarineTech]

I know that the T/C "Encore" has .300WinMag barrels, but I'm not too sure about the Contender having them. .300WinMag too much pressure for the frame of the Contender, that's why they brought out the Encore.

I checked with Fox Ridge Outfitters, Bullberry Barrels, and Virgin Valley Custom Guns. None of them chamber Contenders in .300WinMag.

Virgin Valley Custom guns DOES Chamber the Encore in 30-40Krag, but not the Contender.

 

[Mike Irwin]

That's what I thought, Marine.

I didn't think the standard Contender could handle cartridges in that family.

I know the standard Contender will do .30-30 and .35 Remington...

 

[Okiecruffler]

I've seen a few 30-40 barrels

and several other barrels chambered in cartridges that are questionable (.300 Savage springs to mind). I think there are alot of people out there reaming these barrels out for things they shouldn't be. If you downloaded the 30-40 you may get away with it, but then you've basically got a 30-30 anyway, so what's the point? Now the Encore, that's a whole different thing. .300 mag in a pistol, sure the frame can handle it, but can I?

 

[cookhj]

that right, it's the encore that has the .300WM barrel. okiecruffler is right. if you have a .30-40, you might as well just get a .30-30 and load it with pointed bullets.

 

[David4516]

.30-40 is a really nifty caliber if you ask me. I think it would be cool if they still made rifles in this caliber...

A friend of mine has a Krag rifle. It's very accurate, and fun to shoot. I love the way the magazine works, why weren't there any other rifles with that stlye mag?

 

[farscott]

Everything I have been able to find suggests .30-40 Krag is a bit too much for a Contender, especially with the heavier bullet weights. Mike Bellm has an article on his site that really makes it sound like .30-40 Krag is a bad idea in a Contender.

However, this barrel I found is quite intriguing. It is most definitely a Virgin Valley barrel, and it is not a rechamber. I wonder when Virgin Valley made this barrel and what they found that made them discontinue the chambering in a Contender.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Might be worth an email to Virgin Valley. Those guys seem to be very helpful and knowledgable.

 

[farscott]

I think an e-mail or phone call is in order because I am really intrigued. I really do not need a .30-40 Krag barrel since I already have a 21-inch .30-30 Win barrel, but since when has need been part of the hobby?

 

[Gewehr98]

Sounds like a fun project!

To keep pressures down, you could load cast bullets for that .30-40 Contender barrel. J.D. Jones could probably write his own book on Contender conversions, he made some real doozies under the SSK Hancannon label, in chamberings that would make one wince just thinking about firing them.

 

[only1asterisk]

I don't think the 30-40 will make trouble pressurewise for you unless you try to make it a .308. Lots of people shoot the 375 JDJ and other JDJ series with no problems (others get stretched frames). On the other hand, Mike Bellem has no interest in telling people to avoid this caliber, and I don't think he would if he didn't feel strongly against it. He post at the Single Shot Pistol forum on accuratereloading.com.

Let us know what you decide to do,

David

 

[farscott]

I sent an e-mail to Virgin Valley with a few questions. If I do not hear anything in the next few days, I will give them a call.

 

[labgrade]

FWIW, dinking around some for a 200 yd+ elk round out of a Contender, I settled on the .309 JDJ (JD Jones/SKA Industries).

"Bolt thrust" is indeed a problem in the Contender frames.

.30-40 Krag pressures don't do so well due to the diameter of the case itself - a function of the surface area.

JDJ gets around this by using a .444 Marlin case (as a parent) for many of his "hand cannons." Much larger surface area to assist in (against) the bolt thrust dilema.

I'm shooting a (.309 JDJ) .30 cal 165 gr at an honest 2400 fps (essentially a .30-40 Krag/.300 Savage) out of a 14" Contender barrel, but it's certainly not your standard .30-40 Krag round.

The Krag can be done, but must be downloaded to stay within the Contender's frame limitations.

As mentioned, a Krag ends up as a .30-30 & no real gain other than getting to play with "your weakness."

 

[farscott]

labgrade,

Could you please explain why the larger case head of the .444 Marlin reduces bolt thrust? I must be confused because I am thinking the larger case head will increase peak bolt thrust since the force should be the product of the area of the case head in contact with the action and the peak pressure in the case. Thus, I would conclude that smaller case heads would allow higher peak pressures. This is why I think the .223 Remington is safe in the Contender; while it is a high-pressure cartridge, the case head is quite small. I also thought J.D. Jones picked the .225 Winchester for his JDJ family for the same reason.

 

[labgrade]

Not being a JDJ internal ballistics guy, I only know what's been told in print, farscott.

Seems the larger sized case head (diameter-wise) allows, not necessarily a bigger "umph," but a better "push."

Beats me, but that's the way it is. I guess I could dig & look up the specifics, but they're not at hand.

A smaller case (diameter) seems to push quite a bit harder (bolt thrust) against the breech than will a larger case (diameter). Whole reason JD used the .444 Marlin for his initial "hand cannon" development.

An in-depth study re JDJ/SKS Ind. would prolly get you as much as I understand ......

 

[farscott]

I found this on the SSK Industries web site. While it does reference the Encore, it does verify the inversely proportional relationship between case head size and pressure.

Many larger cartridges that develop lower pressures than those in the pressure range of the .300 Win Mag may also be chambered in the Encore. If the cartridges are larger in diameter then the 300 Mag, pressures must be reduced in relation to cartridge diameter.

While I am glad my understanding of bolt thrust is basically correct, I still am not sure about the .30-40 Krag in a Contender. I believe I will not get this barrel since I havea .30-30 Winchester barrel that does a great job for me.