.40/10mm vs .45 ACP/.45 Super

[TonyAngel]

I really like the 10mm round. The first 10mm I had was a Colt Delta Gold Cup, followed by a Smith 1006 and a 1076. With regard to the 10mm vs .45 Super question, it's a matter of taste. Big, fat, slower moving vs smaller, slimmer, faster moving. The 10mm shoots pretty flat. I never owned a .45 Super and 10mm at the same time, but when shooting at the 100 yard steel with the 10mm, I didn't have to dial the sights up nearly as much with the 10mm as I did with the .45.

As much as I like the 10mm, it isn't a .41 magnum. You can look at the ballistics and see that the 10mm approaches .41 mag territory, if you push it. Personally, I never did find 10mm to be all that "hot."

Now, 30 years later, I still own a .45, but no 10's. I guess I wound up being in the fatter, slower moving camp.

 

[murf]

How will it cause injury to the shooter?

45 Super can be fired in a 'standard' 45 auto pistol. The recommended modifications are a stronger recoil spring, shock buffer, extra power firing pin spring, and a couple more. If converting a Glock, they strongly recommend a new barrel with better chamber support.



45 Super cases use large pistol primers, not small.

the industry (not saami) max pressure for the 45 super is 28,000 psi. that is a 22 percent higher max than a 45 auto +p saami max (23,000 psi), or a 45 gap saami max (23,000 psi). 22 percent more is less than the proof load that saami uses to test (30 percent), so i don't think the barrel is getting stressed too much.

here is an article that should assuage your fears about the 45 super: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-loads-for-the-45-acp/99214 i am going to have to try that enforcer load in my glock 30 to see if it gets the 230 grain xtp close to 1,000 fps. it may since my glock 30 only looses about 25 fps to the longer barreled glock 21. i don't like to run the 45 super loads any faster than i have to.

also, the saami proof loads range from 31,000 psi to 33,000 psi, fyi.

luck,

murf

 

[TTv2]

The only reason I have 45 ACP is because I also like 1911 pistols. I wouldn't be as enthusiastic about 45 ACP in any other platform although I do have a G21. That Glock is far from my favorite pistol, but it isn't worth a lot of money so I'll just keep it.

I don't see any advantage to either in a revolver. I could like a 45 Colt revolver, but wouldn't be interested in a revolver in any of those 4. And I had a Ruger Blackhawk with both 45 ACP and 45 Colt cylinders at one time.



I can't comment on other brands, but both of my 10mm Glocks shoot 40 S&W just fine. But I can now buy 10mm ammo at exactly the same price as 40 S&W. 40 is easier to find and I keep a supply of 40 ammo in case I run short of 10mm. But when I find 10mm I stock up so it's never been a problem.

The main purpose behind 10mm and 45 Super is to get magnum performance out of a semi-auto pistol for large predator protection. Standard 45 ACP or 40 S&W rounds are more than adequate for 2 legged predators.

I'm more familiar with 10mm, I have both a G20 and G29. Both guns will shoot 200 gr hardcast bullets to 1300/1250 fps depending on the gun. That is a little better than 357 mag and will match anything 41 mag will do from a 4" or shorter barrel.

While less familiar with the hot 45 loads there are several options for heavy for caliber 45 hardcast loads in both 45 Super and 45ACP+P that will come close to matching the hotter 10mm loads. I still think 10mm is the better option, but if someone has a 45 and does not want to add another gun shooting these loads is a viable option for large predator defense.

So would you also say if someone already had .40 pistols that it would be better to go with a 10mm?

 

[TTv2]

I have a .45 Blackhawk convertible and a couple of .40 semiautos,would
consider a Blackhawk convertible in .40/10mm but I’m done with the .45acp semiauto.

Any particular reason you're done with .45 in a semi auto?

 

[TTv2]

I really like the 10mm round. The first 10mm I had was a Colt Delta Gold Cup, followed by a Smith 1006 and a 1076. With regard to the 10mm vs .45 Super question, it's a matter of taste. Big, fat, slower moving vs smaller, slimmer, faster moving. The 10mm shoots pretty flat. I never owned a .45 Super and 10mm at the same time, but when shooting at the 100 yard steel with the 10mm, I didn't have to dial the sights up nearly as much with the 10mm as I did with the .45.

As much as I like the 10mm, it isn't a .41 magnum. You can look at the ballistics and see that the 10mm approaches .41 mag territory, if you push it. Personally, I never did find 10mm to be all that "hot."

Now, 30 years later, I still own a .45, but no 10's. I guess I wound up being in the fatter, slower moving camp.

Well, for much of those 30 years the 10mm was a boutique novelty, but the past few years that's been changed due in large part to the internet increasing awareness of 10mm.

I agree, 10mm is not .41 Mag, but we're talking apples and oranges here in semi vs revolver. I saw others say that neither 10mm or .45 Super are .44 Magnum and that's not the question I'm asking. I know .41, .44, etc. revolvers are more powerful, they're also more expensive, heavier, lower capacity, higher recoil...

I do think that the advantage of having a higher velocity semi auto is for longer distances. Someone was saying what does adding velocity do to make a bullet more lethal and my answer is at 50 or 75 or 100 yards you're hitting the target with the same force as you would with .40 or .45 ACP at the muzzle.

 

[huntsman]

I sold my 4566 for a lighter higher capacity.40 S&W.

I just don’t see the need for a plastic .45acp because across the board .40 is smaller frame size(equal to 9mm) and ballistics equal to .45acp.

 

[fxvr5]

here is an article that should assuage your fears about the 45 super: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-loads-for-the-45-acp/99214 i am going to have to try that enforcer load in my glock 30 to see if it gets the 230 grain xtp close to 1,000 fps. it may since my glock 30 only looses about 25 fps to the longer barreled glock 21. i don't like to run the 45 super loads any faster than i have to.

I have no fears of the 45 Super, but whm1974 did.

I've shot 45 Super and 450 SMC, and have tried the handloads with Ramshot Enforcer. It's all good stuff.

 

[MikeInOr]

In regards to .40 & .45 ACP and 10mm & .45 Super, both seem to have similar, if not identical ballistics. So, when they are so similar is their any reason to choose one caliber over the other?

Personally I have lots of .40 guns, but not one .45 semi auto. I do however have lots of .45 revolvers, but not one .40/10mm revolver, so I see the pros and cons to each caliber depending on what they're being shot from, but I really see no reason to suddenly up and buy a .45 semi auto or a .40/10mm revolver.

What do you gentleman think?

With a properly placed shot I doubt the dead guy will have much argument about being shot with .40, .45acp, 10mm, 45 super or 460 Rowland.

I like the recoil / shooting properties of .45 acp and appreciate the extra bullet cross section. But to me this is just a matter of personal preference. All these rounds will get the job done if you do your part.

I do own a .45 acp revolver (Webley). I don't care for moon clips with a revolver at all. Yeah they are faster reloading... but you loose all the pleasure of thumbing rounds into the cylinder when using clips... IMHO. Personally I would take a .45 LC revolver over a 10mm revolver any day! In a heavy duty revolver like a Redhawk / Blackhawk there is no benefit to a 10mm load over high power (Ruger) .45 LC loads that I can see. Here again I like the extra cross section area of the .45 bullet.

My bed side gun is a XD mod 2 compact in .45 acp and my woods / heavy carry gun is a XDS in .45 acp. But for the most part I am usually carrying a 9mm (DiamondBack DB9) or .380 (Ruger LCP) most of the time due to their smaller size / lighter package and feel perfectly comfortable with these smaller calibers.

... now you need to ask "What about a grizzly bears" and really watch this thread go to heck! LOL!

 

[mcb]

With a properly placed shot I doubt the dead guy will have much argument about being shot with .40, .45acp, 10mm, 45 super, 460 Rowland.

I like the recoil / shooting properties of .45 acp and appreciate the extra bullet cross section. But to me this is just a matter of personal preference. All these round will get the job done if you do your part.

I do own a .45 acp revolver (Webley). I don't care for moon clips with a revolver at all. Yeah they are faster reloading... but you loose all the pleasure of thumbing rounds into the cylinder when using clips... IMHO.

... now you need to ask "What about a grizzly bear" and really watch this thread go to heck! LOL!

Moonclips are all about embarrassing the guys with Bottom-Feeders (that think high-cap means they don't have to practice) at the USPSA match with your Noble Round-Gun.



I find this much more satisfying than thumbing single rounds. Let's you imagine that a revolver can almost keep up with a semi-auto.

 

[MikeInOr]

Moonclips are all about embarrassing the guys with Bottom-Feeders (that think high-cap means they don't have to practice) at the USPSA match with your Noble Round-Gun.



I find this much more satisfying than thumbing single rounds. Let's you imagine that a revolver can almost keep up with a semi-auto.

I know there are talented guys that can really make a revolver scream using moon clips... it just isn't what I am into. If you like revolvers with moon clips... more power to you! You have to admit that we are very blessed to have such a wide selection of available hand guns these days... there should be something out there to make pretty much anyone happy.

I love the relaxing almost therapeutic process of popping the cylinder on My Dan Wesson 744 open into my palm, pushing out the empty cases and thumbing in the fresh rounds... to me this is what "I" enjoy about shooting a revolver. I LOVE the tactile feel of each of those big rounds sliding into the cylinder! ...something I really miss when sliding a magazine into a semi auto.

 

[whm1974]

Moonclips are all about embarrassing the guys with Bottom-Feeders (that think high-cap means they don't have to practice) at the USPSA match with your Noble Round-Gun.



I find this much more satisfying than thumbing single rounds. Let's you imagine that a revolver can almost keep up with a semi-auto.

I don't why anyone would think that just because they don't have to practice...

 

[mcb]

I don't why anyone would think that just because they don't have to practice...

It was typed somewhat tongue-in-cheek (USPSA Revolver shooters like to make fun of the semi-autos Divisions when we can, they return the favor) but also from experience. If I am beating you with my Revolver you have not practice enough with your bottom feeder. If I get to a local USPSA match and there are no other revolvers shooter registered I will often switch my division to Production and shoot against 10 rd bottom feeders (My rig is Division compliant). I have never come in last place. My current B-classification in Production division is based on classifiers all shot with my 627 Revolver.

 

[whm1974]

It was typed somewhat tongue-in-cheek (USPSA Revolver shooters like to make fun of the semi-autos Divisions when we can, they return the favor) but also from experience. If I am beating you with my Revolver you have not practice enough with your bottom feeder. If I get to a local USPSA match and there are no other revolvers shooter registered I will often switch my division to Production and shoot against 10 rd bottom feeders (My rig is Division compliant). I have never come in last place. My current B-classification in Production division is based on classifiers all shot with my 627 Revolver.

Wonder 9's were often called Spray N Pray for a good reason during the 80's up until the mid 90's...

 

[murf]

I have no fears of the 45 Super, but whm1974 did.

I've shot 45 Super and 450 SMC, and have tried the handloads with Ramshot Enforcer. It's all good stuff.

then i'll have to pick up a pound of it and compare it to my current 45 super powder, power pistol.

thx,

murf

 

[CDW4ME]

In regards to .40 & .45 ACP and 10mm & .45 Super, both seem to have similar, if not identical ballistics. So, when they are so similar is their any reason to choose one caliber over the other?

Personally I have lots of .40 guns, but not one .45 semi auto. I do however have lots of .45 revolvers, but not one .40/10mm revolver, so I see the pros and cons to each caliber depending on what they're being shot from, but I really see no reason to suddenly up and buy a .45 semi auto or a .40/10mm revolver.

What do you gentleman think?

I think I see a reason.

 

[whm1974]

Do they make brass catchers for semi auto pistols? I only seen those for rifles only, and never even heard of them for handguns.

 

[Howland937]

Do they make brass catchers for semi auto pistols? I only seen those for rifles only, and never even heard of them for handguns.

I've tried several things over the years to catch me handgun brass. The easiest to use is a cheapie 10'x10' tarp, anchored to the ground. If it's not windy, you can raise the opposite end a couple feet, stand on the part that's on the ground, then all your brass (theoretically) rolls down into one pile.

 

[TTv2]

OP here. The reason I made this thread was I wanted to see if there was any reason to buy a .45 and convert it to Super vs buying a 10mm and I didn't get any reason to change my mind. In another thread there was someone who said something to the effect of if they were choosing a 10mm they would prefer a long barrel for the velocity gain, but for .45 prefer the short barrel because the .45's extra mass makes up for the decreased velocity.

That made sense to me and even from a short barrel .45, I would not have much reason to choose .45 Super when .45 +P is sufficient enough.

I can understand why a lot of people would rather go .45 Super because they already have .45 pistols, but I don't, so it doesn't seem logical for me to just because people have .45 fever. I'll chalk that up to people probably having owned .45's since before 10mm even existed. Whatever the case, I don't like to make topics based solely on what I'm looking for or my situation, but for anyone who may be like me in wanting a powerful, yet practical semi auto that's is fairly light in weight, but high in firepower and capacity and isn't sure if 10mm is the way to go or .45 Super is better.

So, after waiting about 2 years for a used Glock 40 to show up somewhere with a good price tag, realizing that's never going to happen, the gun buying rush and panics due to 2020, and sales taxes being added to more and more online gun stores, I finally decided there's no time like the present bought a new G40.

I should have it just in time for my birthday next week

One of the reasons for doing this was I have been finding 10mm brass at my range the past few months (last count it was over 200 cases worth) and have yet to see any .45 Super brass and it's nice to be able to shoot a new cartridge and not having to buy brass to do so. Also, with the availability and price of 10mm getting better and .45 Super still being stuck as a boutique only (Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Doubletap) caliber that costs $1.50 a round, I figure that there are few others at my range who will ever bother buying that ammo and shooting it.

Free brass was a factor and while I may have ideas to load up .45 ACP brass pretty hot to use in a Ruger Redhawk, that isn't something I'd want to do in a .45 Super pistol.

So, from what I have experienced, if someone is looking for what I was looking for, the answer I have for them is that 10mm is a better choice than .45 Super.

Fin.

 

[murf]

great choice. pics would be great as well as a range report.

murf

 

[Walkalong]

Wonder how unpleasant it would be to accidentally put a 45 Super into into a sub-compact 45 ACP gun like a Kahr PM45 or a XD-s 45 ACP or even a Bond Arms 45 ACP derringer?

Ouch.

 

[Outlaw75]

Don't know just who created the requirement which the Army reverted back to 45 caliber.

I thought it was determined by Thompson & Legarde.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson–LaGarde_Tests

ETA: Here's their final report if anyone wants to read it: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html