40 S&W 155 GR. Winchester Silvertip HP

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pabst_20

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bought this box of ammo today. I had never seen a Silvertip pistol cartridge before. they were very pricey but i dont see how they couldnt perform very well. I carry Hydra Shok's 135 gr 40's right now but am thinking about loading my mag with these silvertips. can anyone let me know if they have ever shot any of these before.

Federal Hydra-Shok/Winchester Silvertip HP/Speer Lawman
DSCN3362.jpg
DSCN3371.jpg
 
Its not a great performer, its fast, light, and overly expansive...I also look down on any 135 gr .40 load as inadequate to the task, though of course its better then your fists!

In .40 S&W, the best performers are the 165 gr & 180 gr bullets, with the 180's being the best of all...
 
Some think 155s expand too quickly and don't penetrate as deeply as heavier HPs.

Though I still wouldn't volunteer to take a COM hit with one...

I carry Gold Dot 155 HPs in my Glock 27


M
 
i use winchester ranger 180's in my g22 for ccw and i've been paying about 20 bucks for a box of 50 . i guess it's whatever floats your boat. just practice enough with whatever you carry to be comfortable with it.
 
pabst_20 said:
what do you mean by overly expansive, i thought that was always a good thing.
Click to expand...
Expansion is part of the equation. If a bullet penetrates deep enough, then yes, more expansion is a good thing. Unfortunately, many of the lighter weight bullets (but not all), tend to give up penetration to achieve more expansion.
 
pabst_20 said:
what do you mean by overly expansive, i thought that was always a good thing.
Click to expand...
Only if it penetrates, the silvertips are somewhat notorious for NOT penetrating, penetration trumps expansion! Expansion is great, however you should know that many hollowpoints fail to even expand, and many that do, do so to quickly, resulting in a failure to reach the vital organs or central nervous system....

IMO you should always go with the heaviest bullet you can shoot well with, such as 158 gr in .38 special, 147 gr in 9mm, 180 gr in .40 S&W, 230 gr in .45 ACP. I think you'll find an added benefit in sticking to the bigger bullets as they are often very comfortable to shoot compared to the violently recoiling lightweights & middleweights....Your pistol sure will treat you better...
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong... Is it not true that a LOT of police departments use Gold Dot 155gr HP as standard-issue ammo in .40?

Les
 
I don't know what a lot departments use but mine uses the 180 grain loads.

Usually we get golden sabers sometimes Win Rangers show up. I believe the idea behind the heavy bullet is it will deflect less if shooting through an object. i.e. car door, window and such

I see this a more of a LEO issue and probably not one your typical CCW'er needs to worry too much about.

Though I wouldn't use super light stuff in .40. It really is better with a heavy bullet.

Silver tips I don't know how they do in the .40 BUT I saw some test results for the .44 special which were kindof weak. They opened up real nice but didn't go very deep. Not so good.

Here is a link to some balistics tests.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/40 S&W.html
 
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wrs840 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong... Is it not true that a LOT of police departments use Gold Dot 155gr HP as standard-issue ammo in .40?

Les
Click to expand...

Indeed.

When I first became a cop, my department used 158 grain round nosed lead .38's, long after many others switched to hollow points or .357's.

What some agencies use, especially those without a wound ballistics section, isn't always the best recommendation to choose ammunition on.
 
Pressure is normally the same, so the recoil is going to be felt more with a heavier bullet;) Unless you have a recoil spring that is heavier and taking up some of the shock... All in the design by manufacture of said shooter...:)

If you have a light recoil spring, normally using lighter bullets to be able to get full function of slide :scrutiny: Or the pressure is reduced with lighter loads as in target shooting;)Why I like the Glock, a lot of after market springs and ability to customize to your needs in target shooting conditions...

If you want a self defense load, it is best to go with the one that is pretty standard in loading (pressure etc..) :) Pistol has been designed around it, has some ability to accept a little varience but not a lot IMHO...

Why 165 and 180 are best if the spring has not been changed...
 
Not sure, but I thought I read somewhere that the STs have been modified and their jacket composition is different so to retard expansion somewhat. They were very popular 25+ years ago and then there was the 1986 Miami Dade incident; they were decried though poor tactics and some tough criminals were really more problematic than the ammunition in question.
 
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WOW!!

TONS of BAD info in this thread.

Where the heck do you people get your generalizations from? How about you actually do a simple 2 second google search for REAL data on the round before go telling the guy his ammo is crap.
Quoted from an FBI ammo test.

G22
Winchester 155 Silvertip
1199 fps

bare 12.1/.69
cloth 13.1/.71

So over 12" penetration in both cases and expansion well over 1/2"....

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/40s&w.htm

FYI the US Border Patrol used this ammo until 2002 out their Beretta 96's. Their results with it in putting people down were quite spectacular.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_48/ai_82551648/pg_2/

Shooting Illustrated recently re-tested this round and it went 10 1/4" and expanded to .75

FYI in the same test they tested the Winchester 180gr PDX1 which went 10 3/4" and expanded to .83

It appears that Shooting illustrated is using perma-gel to test expansion and that is why the penetration numbers are less for both rounds than we commonly see.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/tag/winchester/

The 155gr Silvertip is a darn good carry round in the .40S&W. Yes it's old tech but it's still VERY good even compared to the most advanced ammo currently availiable. FYI the silver tip ammo line was redesgined by Winchester to make it perform better and try and get out from under the bad cloud the FBI gave it when they needed a scape goat to cover up their own people's failures, bad training and bad tactics in Miami.

The reason alot of departments are dropping the 155gr 40S&W load is becasue it's are too hard on their guns and has too much recoil to be controlable by small and weak people. It dosen't have anything to do with terminal performance of the bullet. The Border Patrol specifically is having a hard time. For a while they went to training with 180's and carrying 155's on duty - and now they have gone entirely to 180's because of equipment maintenance cost.
Will
 
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rklessdriver,

Thanks for the long version, excellent! I used to have them in my snub .38 and would carry them if they were available where I live...well if the price was right. :D
 
I think rklessdriver summed it up quite well... I don't know what the rest of you guys are basing your negative opinions on, but the data I have seen indicates that the 155g ST is a perfectly adequate cartridge for defensive use. Test a mag or two for function in your gun, and use it with confidence.
 
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rklessdriver said:
WOW!!

TONS of BAD info in this thread.

Where the heck do you people get your generalizations from? How about you actually do a simple 2 second google search for REAL data on the round before go telling the guy his ammo is crap.
Quoted from an FBI ammo test.

G22
Winchester 155 Silvertip
1199 fps

bare 12.1/.69
cloth 13.1/.71

So over 12" penetration in both cases and expansion well over 1/2"....

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/40s&w.htm
Click to expand...

Sorry, I must have missed the posts telling someone their ammo is "crap".

In the test data you referenced, the 180 grain loads outperformed the 155 grain loads, including the ST, across the board. In most cases, the 155 grain rounds failed to make minimum penetration, in various guns. Those tests are from between 10 and 20 years ago, there are even better 180 grain loads available today.

rklessdriver said:
FYI the US Border Patrol used this ammo until 2002 out their Beretta 96's. Their results with it in putting people down were quite spectacular.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_48/ai_82551648/pg_2/

Shooting Illustrated recently re-tested this round and it went 10 1/4" and expanded to .75

FYI in the same test they tested the Winchester 180gr PDX1 which went 10 3/4" and expanded to .83

It appears that Shooting illustrated is using perma-gel to test expansion and that is why the penetration numbers are less for both rounds than we commonly see.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/tag/winchester/

The 155gr Silvertip is a darn good carry round in the .40S&W. Yes it's old tech but it's still VERY good even compared to the most advanced ammo currently availiable. FYI the silver tip ammo line was redesgined by Winchester to make it perform better and try and get out from under the bad cloud the FBI gave it when they needed a scape goat to cover up their own people's failures, bad training and bad tactics in Miami.

The reason alot of departments are dropping the 155gr 40S&W load is becasue it's are too hard on their guns and has too much recoil to be controlable by small and weak people. It dosen't have anything to do with terminal performance of the bullet. The Border Patrol specifically is having a hard time. For a while they went to training with 180's and carrying 155's on duty - and now they have gone entirely to 180's because of equipment maintenance cost.
Will
Click to expand...

See your own link. The reason a lot of departments are changing to 180 from the 155's, is that the 180 provides superior terminal performance, without the high pressure issues of the lightweight high velocity rounds.
 
I've always been a Silvertip fan. If I'm not mistaken, it's got a good record on the street. It shoots very consistent and accurate in my Beretta 96.
 
Wouldn't be the first time... but I'm pretty sure I was there when it was shooting good groups in my Beretta and putting all of the brass in one place... maybe you can correct me on that, though.
 
I think many would best be served by completely disregarding the nonsense you've inculcated yourselves with from the popular gun rags, especially pertaining to lightweight high velocity ammunition!

Posting decades old links, then not even reading the data contained within them, is not going to win you my respect! You can shoot whatever ammo you wish, honestly, I could care less...Just don't ask us our opinion and then not like it when it doesn't conform to your preconconceptions....

I have bad news for all of you who think you know something about high velocity handgun ballistics, the entire spectrum is undergoing a renaissance, and the data is coming in conclusively in favor of bigger, slower bullets, just a fact....:)
 
Sorry, Denalipark. Didn't mean to set anybody off. He asked if anyone had used any of this ammo, and I have. I gave him my opinion, which he asked for. Glad to hear the "entire spectrum is undergoing a renaissance". I've always enjoyed a good "renaissance". Also glad to hear that you don't mind me shooting whatever ammo I wish... honestly... hugely relieved.
 
Ok DenaliPark...lets see the proof for your assertions...make it good. :rolleyes:

Personally I think all this quibbling over 10 grains here or 30 grains there, or whatever, is a waste of time. I also think that it doesn't matter a great deal if its a .355, .40 or .452 of an inch projectile. Though this is a platitude in the world of handguns...shot placement will remain the most significant factor regarding wounding...get a reliable round from a reputable manufacturer in a caliber you can handle and you're set. Now if you like to quibble...I hope you enjoy. Just my opinion...oh and DenaliPark....Ruger Rules!! LOL!
 
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