.410 BBB buckshot for self/home defense

[CurlyThomas]

I have recently purchased a Mossberg .410 for my granddaughter, age 16. I have a supply of 000 but am wondering if the BBB load would be effective as well. It is difficult to find buckshot loads for the .410 and I do not load shotshells.

I am also wondering if the Lee Hand Press if worth the money and if it is capable of making good quality shells.

 

[goon]

I don’t know of tests for BBB. I wouldn’t want to get shot with it, but it probably wouldn’t get the 12” to 18” in ballistic gel that’s generally considered necessary to hit a vital organ. I saw a video of a guy testing .410 Federal 2.5” 000 on a 12” block of gel, and pellets zipped right through and tore up the backstop 20 yards downrange! The .410 000 would do.

 

[Oninotaki]

The only loading for .410 BBB that I know of is the one from ATI. I am not super impressed with their cases in my .410 shotguns that have a feed mechanism of some kind (Henry .410 lever action, and Eternal Rev.410 & S&W Governor revolvers) as they have feed and extraction issues. However in my break action .410s (Stoeger Coach gun SxS, Rossi Tuffy Single Shot, Bond Arms Derringer) they extract just fine.

Here is the only video I know of that tests ATI BBB loads.

ATI 410 Buckshot. Let's try a new ammo.

https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14713891 ATI is marketing this stuff. Don't know who makes it. But it dose shoot. And at close range it would work well. I sti...

m.youtube.com

That said #4 birdshot loads are considered to be ok for apartment use, and S&B make a single 000 and BB load out that sounds decent as well for being a specialty self defense load.

Out of a mossberg .410 however your daughter may be served best by just going with Remington Ultimate Defense loads as shown by Buffalo Outdoorsman.

Patterning video out of Mossberg 500

.410 ULTIMATE DEFENSE 000 BUCKSHOT PATTERNS - Mossberg 500 Cylinder Bore

How does Remington 000 buckshot Ultimate Defense pattern out of a shotgun? That's what I set out to see today. If you haven't saw the Clear Ballistics gel vi...

youtu.be

Penetration video out of Mossberg 500

.410 ULTIMATE DEFENSE 000 BUCKSHOT ~ BALLISTIC GEL

Shooting the Remington Ultimate Defense 410 000 buck into Clear Ballistics 10% gel.This is a viewer funded channel. Support Buffalo's Outdoors on Patreon - h...

youtu.be

 

[CurlyThomas]

I do have some #4 birdshot as well. I will try to pattern that at some point. Maybe 10 yards. The Mossberg has a full choke, but I have just ordered an 18-inch cylinder bore barrel from someone off of Ebay which will handle slugs better--or so I am told. We will see when I get that one.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Oninotaki]

Here is the only video I know of that tests that S&B buck and BB load out. It's out of a governor so I imagine the performance would be better out of the Mossberg. I have no idea by how much however.

.410 "Elite Protection" Revolver Shotgun Shells? VS .40 S&W - Sellier and Bellot Ammo

Testing the .40 S&W VS the .410 from handguns. The .40 S&W is a 180 gr JHP rated at 974 FPS and the .410 is a single 000 ball and 15 BB's rated at 984 FPS. I...

youtu.be

 

[Oninotaki]

I do have some #4 birdshot as well. I will try to pattern that at some point. Maybe 10 yards. The Mossberg has a full choke, but I have just ordered an 18-inch cylinder bore barrel from someone off of Ebay which will handle slugs better--or so I am told. We will see when I get that one.

Thanks for the responses.

If you are going to do slugs for self defense you are going to want Brenneke style slugs. Foster style disintegrate and get terrible penetration. Once again Buffalo outdoors covers this nicely.

BEST .410 SLUGS FOR DEER 💥💥💥

Brenneke vs Remington .410 shotgun slugs in ballistic gel. If you plan on taking a deer with 410 slugs you should see this.This video was recorded at The Buf...

youtu.be

 

[Oninotaki]

Here is an excellent video by Mr. Paul Harrel showing what #8 and #4 birdshot looks like out of a full length barrel 12ga shotgun. Similar results should be had with a .410 just smaller holes in the walls because the .410 is flinging less lead with roughly the same amount of energy as the 12ga.

Bird Shot in your Home Defense Shotgun.

m.youtube.com

 

[goon]

The only loading for .410 BBB that I know of is the one from ATI. I am not super impressed with their cases in my .410 shotguns that have a feed mechanism of some kind (Henry .410 lever action, and Eternal Rev.410 & S&W Governor revolvers) as they have feed and extraction issues. However in my break action .410s (Stoeger Coach gun SxS, Rossi Tuffy Single Shot, Bond Arms Derringer) they extract just fine.

Here is the only video I know of that tests ATI BBB loads.

ATI 410 Buckshot. Let's try a new ammo.

https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14713891 ATI is marketing this stuff. Don't know who makes it. But it dose shoot. And at close range it would work well. I sti...

m.youtube.com

That said #4 birdshot loads are considered to be ok for apartment use, and S&B make a single 000 and BB load out that sounds decent as well for being a specialty self defense load.

Out of a mossberg .410 however your daughter may be served best by just going with Remington Ultimate Defense loads as shown by Buffalo Outdoorsman.

Patterning video out of Mossberg 500

.410 ULTIMATE DEFENSE 000 BUCKSHOT PATTERNS - Mossberg 500 Cylinder Bore

How does Remington 000 buckshot Ultimate Defense pattern out of a shotgun? That's what I set out to see today. If you haven't saw the Clear Ballistics gel vi...

youtu.be

Penetration video out of Mossberg 500

.410 ULTIMATE DEFENSE 000 BUCKSHOT ~ BALLISTIC GEL

Shooting the Remington Ultimate Defense 410 000 buck into Clear Ballistics 10% gel.This is a viewer funded channel. Support Buffalo's Outdoors on Patreon - h...

youtu.be

I like his style. He’s pretty thorough and presented a lot of useful info for anyone curious about shotguns.

 

[Russ57]

This might be worth looking at. No experience with it. They make it in 2 1/2" also.

Winchester PDX1 410 Defender 3" Shell 4 discs 16 BBs 750 FPS 10/box

Winchester PDX1 410 Defender 3" Shell 4 discs 16 BBs 750 FPS 10/box

www.aeammo.com

 

[.455_Hunter]

A 3" .410 with 5 000 pellets is at least 60% as effective as a typical reduced recoil 12 ga tactical load with 8 or 9 00 pellets. That's quite good.

 

[armoredman]

Here is what 5 pellet Fed 000 Buck .410 "Self defense loads" look like on a snake target at 5 yards out of a Taurus Judge. Shot these rounds about an hour ago.

 

[CurlyThomas]

Here is another slug comparison.

Winchester & Remington .410 Slug Ballistic Gel Test & Review

Items I use regularly in these videos-Steel Targets: https://shootingtargets7.com/?rfsn=6463579.e4ca9dMain Camera (smartphone): https://amzn.to/3IJwMjLSecond...

www.youtube.com

 

[CurlyThomas]

I also have a few boxes of these, but no gel tests that I can find.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

It is difficult to find buckshot loads for the .410 and I do not load shotshells.

Google "Federal Personal Defense .410 000 buckshot".

You'll discover there's plenty to be had for purchase in 2 1/2" and 3" shotshells.

Yes, it's marketed as "handgun" ammo but it works just fine, i.e., penetrates at least 12", from a full length shotgun barrel.

 

[N555]

I have recently purchased a Mossberg .410 for my granddaughter, age 16. I have a supply of 000 but am wondering if the BBB load would be effective as well. It is difficult to find buckshot loads for the .410 and I do not load shotshells.

I am also wondering if the Lee Hand Press if worth the money and if it capable of making good quality shells.

Don't do that if you already load center fire. Get a 444marlin die and a 7.62x54r shell holder.
Then it's only a matter of knocking out spent primer pressing in a new one and doing the crimp or using an over shot card and glue.

 

[goon]

I’d say if you only have birdshot and the BBB load, use the larger shot size until you can get some 000 buck. The Federal 2.5” and 3” 000 are plated with copper and kept all the pellets in a hand size pattern for me at 15 - 20 yards. I have notifications set to swoop in and buy a bunch of the 2.5” next time Federal loads some. I don’t even use a .410 for defense - I just like them. Slugs can surprise you - they are often pretty soft lead and being driven pretty fast compared to a shot load. A 1/4 ounce slug is only 109 grains. So you’re basically firing a light, soft lead .38 bullet at 1,700 FPS. For one, I often haven’t had them hit anywhere near my point of aim. Second, they might flatten out on impact and have terrible performance. If they hit around point of aim, you can probably get by for a bit with them though. My preference would be any decent 000 in a .410, but especially the Federal.

FWIW, I have been extremely disappointed by Winchester 000 in .410. It throws a sad horizontal spread across the whole target. You’d think three round balls stacked atop each other would have to impact around the same place, but somehow the Winchester stuff defies the laws of physics and just doesn’t (in my experience).

 

[CurlyThomas]

All of the Federal PD .410 loads I find online are out of stock. I'll just have to wait.

 

[armoredman]

CAL Ranch in Casa Grande has some of the .410 Fed PD 000 Buck if that's what you want - see if they will ship.

 

[Oninotaki]

All of the Federal PD .410 loads I find online are out of stock. I'll just have to wait.

So here is the thing about the Federal personal defense 000 loads, they are fantastic for the .410 revolvers. What makes them so great is how well their wad controls for the rifling inside the barrel which makes the the revolver a pistol and not a short barrel shotgun. Federal Premium Buckshot loads provide the best pattern in a .410/.45 colt pistol, all the other buckshot loads have poor patterns because they are not designed for rifled barrels but instead smooth bore ones.

For the Mossberg .410 shotgun you got your daughter you don't need to worry about rifling in the barrel, it's a regular smooth bore shotgun. That shotgun should do just find with the Remington Ultimate Defense or the Winchester Super X buckshot loads, which are much easier to get than the Federal Premium that gets bought up as soon as it gets made because so many people are misunderstanding why it is considered so good.

 

[N555]

I'm going to load up some with lead T shot. I'll try h110, aa9, al410.
Probably use stump wads.

 

[Oninotaki]

I'm going to load up some with lead T shot. I'll try h110, aa9, al410.
Probably use stump wads.

That sounds interesting, please share your results. Quick question do you know what size shell(2.5" or 3") you plan on using, and do you have a target load weight you are aiming for?

 

[N555]

That sounds interesting, please share your results. Quick question do you know what size shell(2.5" or 3") you plan on using, and do you have a target load weight you are aiming for?

All I have is new 2.5 inch hulls that I'll use an over shot card with glue, it will be more like a 3 inch load. Im going to try and stuff around 5/8 oz of T shot in there and see how fast I can make it go. I only have single shot 410 guns so what I load might be too hot for a pump gun that doesn't have a half inch of steel around the chamber.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have not tested any 410 BBB shells so can't comment. I have done quite a bit of testing with 00 and 000 buckshot 410 shells though. I have started a couple of threads in the shotgun section about my testing.

I will make a few suggestions.

Stick with 00 buckshot if your 410 barrel has a full choke. 000 buckshot works best out of a cylinder bore choke. And most importantly, NEVER shoot the Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense 410 shells in any 410 with a full choke barrel! The bullet in those shells are 0.41" in diameter and the 410 full choke is around 0.396"

I have tested factory 2 1/2" buckshot shells and my own 3" buckshot shells. They have plenty of penetration. And might be too much for apartments due to over penetration. 410 buckshot holds a tight pattern out to 15 yards since all pellets are stacked on top of each other. The pattern opens up to around 12- 14 inches at 25 yards. My 410 loads penetrate just as well as 2 3/4" 12 buckshot loads in my testing. You just have 5 pellets versus 9 pellets in a 3" 410 shell.

 

[Oninotaki]

I just want to add that this is a handy tool for figuring out how many columns of buckshot will fit in a shell (amongst other things). Running the numbers it shows that BBB shot can fit three columns, but T shot can only fit two. This is probably why ATI chose BBB for their load, and why most other loads are 000 or 0000.

Adionally #1 birdshot will get you four columns, while #2 birdshot will get you five.

Smaller Circles within a Large Circle - Calculator

Calculate the number of small circles that fits into an outer larger circle - ex. how many pipes or wires fits into a larger pipe or conduit.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[N555]

I just want to add that this is a handy tool for figuring out how many columns of buckshot will fit in a shell (amongst other things). Running the numbers it shows that BBB shot can fit three columns, but T shot can only fit two. This is probably why ATI chose BBB for their load, and why most other loads are 000 or 0000.

Smaller Circles within a Large Circle - Calculator

Calculate the number of small circles that fits into an outer larger circle - ex. how many pipes or wires fits into a larger pipe or conduit.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

That's what I figured. T shot would ride in two by two stacks.
One phenomenon I discovered a very long time ago loading 12ga buckshot was two by two 000 always patterned better than 3x3 stacks of 00 buckshot. For example my 8 pellet 000 buck shells always did better than 9 pellet 00 buckshot, it didn't matter what choke or load I used as long as I used same choke, similar hardness shot and a similar amount of powder.
To get an 8 pellet 000 load to do worse than a 9 pellet 00 shell I would have to compare full power 8 pellet shells againt softly loaded 9 pellet shells.
Or use soft 000 "muzzle loader 36cal round balls" vs hard+plated 00.