.410 single shot *snicker*

[sm]

My fault of course - again.

Now we all know that a .410 is not the most effective shotgun gauge, nor is it the best gauge for a kid to actually hunt with and the ammunition costs.
We have discussed pattern boards , and scores at Skeet.

Some stuff is just neat, sentimental , fun and "because".

One of the single moms *got* herself a new H&R single shot .410.
She did not need a shotgun, she has shotguns.
She really likes the 20 gauge and 28 gauge.

Just. She. Got. Bit.

Now her son is having a great time with a single shot .22 rifle, with other kids.
Heck all of us adults are having fun with this.

With shotgun stuff, I often use a single shot .410 for my instructors gun.
Kids size or adult, don't matter, I just use one to assist new shooters on stuff...

I often tote one of these single shot .410s just taking a walk...
Lob Slugs out yonder...
And this lady has seen me fell doves and other small game...

Her son , as do the other kids , sometimes have a big time assisting with Pattern Board stuff and sometimes it is just fun to have a kids assist in .410 single shot patterning.

Seems her son had this really big grin one day , and this neat sheet of paper telling mom all about this pattern this gun shot...

See the young man has a Youth .410, and other guns. Grandpa is doing a real good job of fixing this boy up.

<stomps foot> Arrggghhh! I can't stand it, I want a single shot .410 to mess with too!

I've seen this coming...
The boy too...
Grandpa has been waiting and watching too...
The rest of this bunch...err...umm..."we are helping".

~~

Mom and this boy head over to dad/grandpa's.

Boys are going to get haircuts and run errands and mom/daughter stays at the house.
She got busy.
Home cooking, cleaning and just working herself silly.
Boys come home and she suggests they go watch that old movie and she has other stuff to do in the house...

"Your momma is getting geared up to ask me something, most likely a favor boy, so pay attention and learn about women ..." grandpa shares
Boys get to snickering...

Oh my! What a spread was fixed with home cooked meal, and desserts.
House has that "women done been here and cleaned" smell.

Dishes done, time to settle down and over coffee daughter asked
"Dad, go with me tomorrow to look at guns. We haven't piddled in a gun store in a bit and your grandson needs more .22 ammunition and quality time with us all 3 doing this".

"Anything in particular we looking for? grandpa asks being dumb as a brick.

"Oh...I don't know, maybe a single shot .410." she says

"You did not clean under your old bed did you? You always forgot to clean under there" grandpa says.

Mom gets up, runs to her old bedroom and underneath is a new H&R Topper in .410.

"Only reason I never cleaned under there, was so you and mom would have a hiding spot..."

This gun comes with a good used reloader as well, one grandpa found some time ago and being a grandpa "just figured it would come into play someday"


Oh yeah, they went to piddling at the gun store...had a great time!
Seems the folks at the gun store played dumb about the new shotgun, until it was revealed it had been given.

Then the razzing, the story telling, the women vs guys on house cleaning.

Grandson made out like a bandit of course during all this.

 

[Gordon]

Great story!
I made my wife this cute little 20ga Ithaca model 37 with a 22" Deer Slayer barrel and a 12 1/2" sock with a Limbsaver pad for shooting stuff in here garden, around the ranch. I put 7/8 oz #8s in it. But somehow she always grabs the little H&R 'folding' .410 , with i't "Choked" barrel and 1/2 oz of 9's! Matter of fact so do I for vermin. The grand daughters are not quite at the shotgun level, still Chipmunking. The grandSONS are still pooping their drawers, but will be .410 ing soon, no doubt!

 

[sm]

Gordon,
That Ithaca in 20 ga is a NICE set-up!

Still you, Lee, Dave, and others around here , even with the defensive training you have, understand a bone stock shotgun has proven itself to handle property duty, feed the family and protect.

Fun and passing on not only shotguns, but "life stuff" with a single shot shotgun is also historically proven.
Same with a single shot .22 rifle.

One does not "need" a 10# , extended mag, side saddled, shotgun to toss a popcorn load over the garden to get pests to leave.

To give a humane shot to a Robin a feral cat got a hold of and scared off when one approaches.
Kid with an adult passing forward, and the kid taking this shot, and then quality time with the Natural Order of Things , whether the Robin is buried, or left to be finished off.

Single shots are easy for anyone to use, from kid to elderly, easy to make and know safe, reliable, and easy to tote.

Fun factor is a given.


Steve

 

[gtd]

My Dad gave me one for Christmas when I was a kid. Bought it at the hardware store (back when guns were "hardware"!). It symbolized his respect for me as someone who had the maturity to handle guns in a responsible way (and it came with lots of NRA safety pamphlets). That was 32 years ago.

I gave it to my son a year ago. He seemed nonplussed, but I could see he was just suppressing emotion. He later (in a suppressed, teenage way) expressed "interest" in getting a 20-gauge like they use at Scout camp. It's coming . . . .

20 or 30 years from now he'll give it to his kid.

A single-shot .410 means a whole lot more than just a shotgun. Guns are sculptures, works of art. When they are gifted to commemorate some milestone in life, they take on a trophy or heirloom significance.

I would rather hunt ducks with that .410 and miss every one than make every shot with a custom Benelli.

 

[sm]

gtd,

Your reply put a big grin on my face, and my insides got all warm and fuzzy.

Thank you!

Steve

 

[jrfoxx]

my first hunting gun was a Mossberg 3 shot bolt action .410 my uncle had gotten from his dad for his 13th birthday. He gave to me when I was about 12 as he was never really a gun and/or hunting guy.nce and light s I could carry it around n the woods all day wihout any problem.Even managed to get a fair number of squirrels and cottontails with it.I think all the hunting I did with it is what made me so good at skeet and trap with my dad's 12ga Ruger Red label O/U later on.All the old timers at the gun club used to hate seeing some 13-14 year old kid outshoting them regulaly
Unfortunately, I seem to have lost all that skill in te last 20 years or so.Last time I was with some buddies who were throwing some clays, I couldnt hit SQUAT! I tried to blame it on the used 12ga pump I had bought, and had never fired before, but freinds being friends, one of the took my gun and proceeded to break every one I threw out for him..the bastard....

 

[arcticap]

Yep, an .410 H&R Topper was my 1st shotgun. I can't tell you how many squirrels that I missed because it didn't have a sighting rib. But I also bagged a few. When I bought a .410 Remington pump, the squirrels fell with a lot more certainty though.
I did put a youth stock on the H&R and my oldest son shot his first chipmunk with it.
When my 2nd son shot it, I knew it wacked his shoulder a little bit because he started rubbing it and said something like it hurt.
My 3rd son hasn't shot it yet, but he will.
At my club's turkey shoots, the youngsters usually choose to shoot the .410 single shot. I help them to set it up on a standing rifle rack and aim it before letting them pull the trigger with a 2.5 inch shell. Most usually hit the paper and treasure the empty shell, even if for just a little while. But despite shooting against some specialized 12 gauge turkey rigs with double the number of pellets, wouldn't you know that every once in a while, a young kid will win the relay with only a couple of pellets on the target yet still getting one the closest to the center.
Oh, the predictable unpredictability of the single shot .410!
It will happen again as it always does, it's just a matter of when, not if!

 

[foghornl]

My fault of course - again.

Of course it is, Steve. Just like always. Didn't you notice that faint, but readable 'tat' on your forehead..."Guilty Party" ? ? ?

I have never owned a .410 shotty, but if you can hit stuff good with that, you'll probably do even better with a bigger shotgun. Case in point, one of the guys I used to hunt with used a .410 without too much success at dove-n-quail. IIRC, it was a Winny 1300. Finally moved up to a Mossy 500 in 20-Ga, and it seemed like he never missed a bird after that.

 

[sm]

foghornl,

As we have shared , we know the .410 has an ineffective pattern as compared to the other gauges.

I, for one, have always been honest with folks about the .410, even those wanting to get a kid a shotgun, or a kid wanting a shotgun.

I really do suggest a 28 gauge for first shotgun.

Still, sometimes the kid is just only so big, and so the little .410 set up for them is done.
Add that .410 being passed down by grandpa , is what they get.

I am up front and the kids, adults know I am. We shoot pattern boards and learn all about the "whys".

Just like it has been shared, Sentimental Value, Memories, Stories, and just downright Fun, often outweigh ineffective patterns, and all.

I know kids that still have pieces of busted balloons, clay targets shot leaning up against a box or tree, and the hulls and other "memorabilia" shooting a little .410.

Doves done up by a Taxidermist, and other critters too.

I hope we never lose this aspect of passing forward to future firearm owners.

 

[Big Daddy K]

410

I started out with an Ithaca 20ga and have only purchased my first 410s within the last couple years. I have and NEF and a Mossy 500 in 410.

Man they are the neat. I love everything about them.

My 10 year olds first and second shotgun was a 20. (Rossi matched pair then an 870 youth)

Think I'm gonna get my 6 year old an NEF or Rossi 410 and have it cut down with recoil pad of some sort. This will not really be for wingshooting. Mostly for shooting stationary targets and squirrel hunting this fall. Cant wait.

 

[Titan6]

The training wheels of the shotgun world.

 

[Odd Job]

Gives me fond memories.
My training wheels in the firearm world was a .410/.22 combo rifle, a Stevens.

 

[DrLaw]

Inherited

I inherited a Montgomery Wards Westernfield .410 bolt action with tubular magazine. I forget who actually made it, Marlin or something like that. I had never shot it until one day when we had a members night trap shoot prior to our monthly gun club meeting.

I broke 5 of 25 birds.

Considering I also had not done trap before, and don't own any other shotguns, I was pleased with myself!

The Doc is out now.

 

[KINGMAX]

To me a .410 is not the best to start a kid with. I bought my daughter a 20 guage to start with. She got that when she wwas 12, will be 14 in Sept.

A .410 is a great snake gun - it will dispatch most any snake - with one good shot to the head.

 

[arcticap]

For kids hunting squirrels though, it soundly beats the .22 hands down!

 

[sm]

KINGMAX,
Oh, once again, I agree the .410 is not the best gun to start one out on...the 28 gauge is.

You knew that was coming again didn't you?

Re: Single shot and squirrels.
Funny thing is, when a kids shoot a pattern board with a .410, and then one points out the "holes in the pattern" using a gold ball for a "squirrels head", it reinforces all the lessons - just as when a kid gets lessons on shooting a golf ball with a .22 rifle representing a squirrels head.

Sorta alleviates some fussing b/t kids with .410 vs .22 rifle.
They really do pick up on gun fit, and correct basics, for both platforms.

 

[sm]

True and Funny

One of the worst things an adult can do is to make a kid feel "small" like a "little kid".

I/we don't just shove a .410 at a kid and go "here little kid, use this little gun".

Instead, we are upfront and honest with the kids with pattern boards.
Shoot at a ping pong ball/ golf ball and kids will go "whoa, pattern has holes and not one pellet hit that ball from this distance"

Still for littler kids, not "quite there" for 28 gauge, well we were honest, and the kids really appreciate this.

We adults will also just hunt with a single shot in .410, we are all on the same level.

True and Funny, no matter how times we have done this.

Adults will miss, and try to shuck a single shot, or pull the trigger again like a semi auto.
"You can't do that silly, it is only a single shot".
"Oh how funny, you tried to shuck it..."
Kids chime in

Rabbit hunting in the snow was hilarious one day. Beagles are a hoot to just watch and listen to anyway...add kids, snow...
Some of these adults starting out, kept missing, and snow "being blown up", and trying to shuck a pump ,or pulling the trigger again.

"Dad, you are not very good at this..."
"Mom, I thought you could shoot? "
Kids were having a ball with all this, especially when one kid made a great shot and the other kids "see, that is how you do it, you guys need lessons?"

"Okay , we have blown up enough snow, you guys can really shoot a rabbit now".

Heck the Beagles seemed to be getting a kick of of adults trying to work a single shot .410, and missing.

Buddy system, and I have this young lady to assist, I asked if she was ready if the rabbit circled back.
"Yeah, just tell the adults to not shoot and mess everything up".

By golly! rabbit circled back and she hammered that rabbit but good, only about 8 steps.
"I shoot, and you are supposed to get my rabbit, don't you know? "
Cute kid, she was having a good time razzing back and forth.

 

[foghornl]

Hmmmm.......

I think somehow, [I know...thinking is dangerous!] I just gotta get a 28-ga, and try it out. Never shot a 28-Ga much....one of the guys I sometimes shoot with has one....Not sure, but I think it is a Winny 1200/1300 ? ? ? ?

'Many Years Back' hunting buddy with the old Winny .410......gotta think real hard now, but someone had done the '10-minute garage-n-hacksaw choke adjustment' so it was about a 20" barrel gun. Don't think the muzzle was actually cut evenly. When he moved up to the 20-ga Mossy, it had a modified choke, and actually patterned pretty good... #5 & #6 actually was closer to "Improved Modified", almost what you would expect from a "Full" choke. Smaller shot (7-1/2 through 9) tossed the classic 'Modified' pattern while #3 Buck was fair, slugs so-so.

It really is that every shotgun/ammo combo is a law unto itself.

Steve, you have so many good times with the smaller gauges, that I just gotta get both a 28 & a .410.

Dang it, you are the "Guilty Party" again...now I wanna buy at least 2 more shotguns...

 

[sm]

foghornl,

The reality is, you know all this stuff, so does your wife.

A bone 12 gauge shotgun with a 2 3/4" only chamber is the most versatile shotgun there is, and will handle every task anyone will ever need.

Next up is the bone stock 20 gauge 2 3/4" only chambered shotgun.
For most folks, this too will handle everything they will ever use shotgun for.
Granted the 20 gauge does not have "all" the load offerings, still #3 buckshot is a very good serious buckshot loading.

Goose hunters, duck hunters, simply are more ethical, and either never had, or outgrew the "gotta limit out" itch, and "sky-busting" behavior.
There is the fact a 20 gauge on a 20 gauge frame is easier to tote, not only for lighter framed folks, such as teenagers, and petite ladies, also for those with physical limits and all the aches and pains Father Time (age) put on us all.

That 1100 or Beretta, 20 gauge semi auto a teenager learned on, is again the best gun for them at age 65, when arthritis, that knee surgery, or whatever else has occurred since being a teenager.

28 gauge is better than what it is supposed to be.
Shooting Skeet for instance, well the score board always shows the best scores in this gauge.
Many folks, including myself, used the 28 gauge for 12, 20 and 28 events as one is allowed to shoot a gauge smaller than the event, and then used the .410 for the .410 event.

This 28 gauge will fell rabbits, squirrels, doves, quail and other game, and is to easy to tote.
I prefer to start a new shooter with a 28 gauge shotgun. I don't care if this person is a Linebacker, or a 12 year old.

The fact is, the new shooter can focus on correct basic fundamentals, not get fatigued, and build self esteem and confidence with this 28 gauge because the felt recoil is either not there, or so mild.

What do most folks use a shotgun for?
Well if the answer is Shooting skeet, maybe 5 Stand, messing with a portable trap down on the farm, upland shooting, small game hunting...

What the heck does one need a 10 pound gun, that is overall longer and heavier, in 12 gauge, with 3.5" chambers?
They don't. Truth is , they will not shoot that gun much, unless they really do a lot of Goose hunting.

.410 while not as an effective payload as we know, still plays an important role.

That littler kid, as I have always shared, is sat down and one is honest with in regard to patterns.
One gets out with this kid and shoots the pattern board and parents/ is the responsible adult.
Kids are not dumb, and they know and understand they are just not quite big enough for a 28 gauge yet.
They KNOW they are not being looked down, and talked down like a "little kid".

"OK, I am pretty sure I did all the stuff right, just I bet the holes in the pattern is why I missed." - a kid will share.

"Yes you did a fine job indeed, really proud of your gun safety, and doing all the right stuff, I bet the next squirrel gets felled though" - you share with this kid.

I and others like me, are using a .410 as well with this kid. Easy to tote, easy to make sure safe for both of us, and a kid learns by doing, and seeing others doing.

"Aw man! Steve, that squirrel ran behind the tree, you shoulda had 'em, guess sometimes the squirrels are smarter than us - huh?" - kid will share.

It ain't the gun, it ain't taking a limit of squirrels.
What this is, is quality time, learning all sorts of life lessons , the gun, the squirrel, just a bonus.

Sheesh, busting balloons, a clay target leaned up against box, does the same thing.

Really neat? Reloading shells with a kid, and the kid shooting a shell they made.

"Aw man! I can't make up mind which is cuter, or neater, the .410 or the 28 gauge I reloaded " - kids



The quicker most folks realize it ain't the guns - instead mindset - the better off they will be.


Steve