410 slug loads

[crazyjennyblack]

My dad uses a .410 Mossberg 500 pump shotgun for home defense. He used to use a 12 gauge, but he's almost 70 and has shoulder problems making his 12 gauge a not-so-good idea. So, he has the .410 now, and keeps it loaded with slugs.

I've been interested in .410 for a while now, and upon cutting open slug shells, I've noticed that most of the space is taken up by a large wad or a white powder. Since a pump shotgun only has maybe 6 round capacity or so, what would be the problem with removing the wad or the powder, cutting the shell down, and recrimping it? (see pic) Would the gun still cycle? Would this increase capacity?

Also, what about heavier slug loads? I've seen .410 shotshells that have 5/8 oz or about 275 grains of shot. Why couldn't the guns handle a 220 grain slug going at 1100-1200 fps? Is there data for this?

Interested to see who out there has tried these things.

 

[hang fire]

IIRC, Lyman at one time made a 375 grain .410 mold and listed it clocking around 1500 fps.

There is a company presently making .410 heavy slug loads within SAAMI specs that are on parr with hot .45-70 loads.

But with all that said, the wife has a 3" cylinder Taurus Judge she keeps beside the bed loaded with 3" shells containing five 70 grain triple ought (.36") balls. Even out of that short barrel they clock around 850 fps and she can DA unleash 25 of those .36" balls in a micro second. I would think in a longer barrel shotgun, those loads clocking 1200 fps would be devastating on a perp.

 

[NCsmitty]

Along those lines, I have been loading my own cast .380" ball load in 2.5" hulls. I stack 3 balls spaced with custom cut wads over a gulandi (ballistic products, cut in half) over powder wad, using H110 powder and a normal crimp. The loads are used in an NEF single shot that has had the barrel cut with no choke and is fitted with rifle sights. Velocity is a solid 1130 FPS, and will stay in a 12" pattern at 50yds. Like getting hit with three 38/357 slugs at once.


NCsmitty

 

[kingmt]

You need to rework the load because the fluff compresses to take the shock instead of your chamber. If it were me I would use 44-40 brass fire form it to the chamber, prime, charge, over powder card & wad, resize to 44-40, then seat bullet. At 30 feet it would be good enough for a kill shot.

Only thing with 44-40 brass some heads are to thick so cycle a them through & call the thick ones. I shot some & was happy out to 30yds but then they open up alot.

 

[FROGO207]

Instead of 44-40 brass use 444 marlin or the 2.5 inch Magtech shotshells that are all brass and cut your own wads out of cardboard with a 45 ACP brass that has been sharpened to make a punch. Take the primer out and drill it so a nail can be used to push the wads out after making them. Use whatever size lead balls will fit down the barrel and buffer with cream of wheat, seal with another cardboard wad and Duco cement. Trial and error on the propellant, I would try small amounts of red dot for starters. Weigh the lead balls and buffer and approximate charge from there using shotshell data.

 

[kingmt]

He said he wanted to shorten them & I figured the tapered nose would help in chambering them. That is the only reason to resize them.

 

[rcmodel]

The long cushion wad column or filler is to give the slug time to accelerate up to speed before getting slammed in the azz by 13,000 pounds of pressure.

If the gun doesn't blow up, it more then likely won't feed short shells anyway.

Leave it alone.

What you are suggesting is neither Safe or Advisable for a defense gun that has to work 100% right under stress.

rc

 

[crazyjennyblack]

So.... why does a slug need a long piece of cushion under it, while 1/2 oz of lead shot doesn't? If the slug needs the cushioning to avoid some kind of pressure spike, what is the difference and why?

 

[FROGO207]

The cushion is to keep the slug from deforming and for proper spacing within the shell so that the propellant can build up the correct pressure before everything starts to move.The shot cup is to keep the ROUND shot from being badly deformed. If it gets out of round then it will do funny things and not fly straight--not giving a good repeatable pattern. The lead slug has a hollow base that is expanded and seals the bore, heavier on the nose will keep it flying true and not allow it to start to tumble in a firearm lacking rifling. Round balls rotate around their axis like the earth and can't tumble like a solid elongated cylinder will when moving through the atmosphere. This is also why you use a buffer with large balls (say 000-BUCK) in a shotgun.

 

[rcmodel]

why does a slug need a long piece of cushion under it, while 1/2 oz of lead shot doesn't?

A shot load also has a cushon wad column under it.

.410 shotcup wad.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Magnum-410-wad-MG410-250_bag/productinfo/072MG410/

rc

 

[SHR970]

RC, I believe the OP was referring to standard 410 wads as exemplified by the SP410 wad:SP410

 

[SHR970]

The wad column in a 410 slug is to take up all of the unused volume in the shell. There is a certain amount of cushion that it brings to the equation to protect the hollow slug base but the amount of cushion needed is dependent on more factors than we need to add to the conversation.

The problem with shortening the shells as suggested is that you are way more than likely to cause feed problems. In 12 gauge, Aguila markets a 1 3/4" shell. They tell people up front that many pump guns won't feed them properly and they won't cycle semiautos either. As was posted earlier, when it comes to a home defense gun, you need 100% reliability. What you are suggesting be done is to invite a high risk of negating that reliability as evidenced by a commercially available product albiet in a 12 gauge.

 

[bangaway]

hang fire

Do you know what company loads that hot 410 slug you mentioned? Have fun and bangaway.

 

[kingmt]

I would think anyone would make sure it worked before hand.

I was just trying to answer the question asked. To go off topic I would suggest a High Point 9mm or 45 if he needs something with a stock & low recoil. There is tons of guns that would fill that bill.

I have no idea what some of the other factors are for wanting to go this route. Maybe it is the only gun he has or .....

 

[hang fire]

Do you know what company loads that hot 410 slug you mentioned? Have fun and bangaway.

http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big410Ballistics.html