.44 caliber Lyman gaschecks not sizing fully

[44and45]

I have a Star lube-sizer, also 3 other brands lube presses...Lyman 450, Lyman 45, and RCBS lube press.

My problem seems to be that the .44 caliber Lyman mould bullets that use gaschecks don't come out right on the lubed sized diameter only at the gascheck area.

The bullet shank is .430 but the gascheck is coming out at .4295, why won't it size out like the rest of the bullet? I'm trying to avoid gas cutting around the gascheck.

I've tried attaching the gaschecks onto the bullet's base which is not a real tight fit, then run them through the Lyman 450 lube press dryly to seat the gascheck. (no lube) The Lyman lube sizing die in that press is .430 dia. Should I use a bigger sizing die there like a .431 dia....before sizing and lubing the bullets in my Star lube press.

There has to be a happy solution here some place.

The Star lube press is wonderful piece of equipment, but doesn't seem to seat GC worth a hoot.

I should mention the .430 lube sizing die in the star is a used one, but the steel on them you can't scratch.


Jim

 

[LHB1]

Jim,
The different sized diameters may have something to do with different rate of spring back (coefficient of restitution?) of bullet alloy and the copper gas check. Different metals will "spring back" slightly more or less than other metals after compression is released. The copper gas check may be expanding .0005 less than the pure alloy portion of bullet after passing thru the sizing die. Just my thoughts.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[44and45]

Hello, LB.

I'm using Lyman GC and think they are made of brass.

Today I tried to punch the GC a bit larger with tapered punch I made to about .440 diameter, which may be too much as they don't seem to crimp onto the bullets at all now...but when run through the Star luber they come out about .430 to .431 diameter...but just hanging on and not crimped tight.

Wish I had some samples of the Hornady GC in .44 and .45 calibers. They are supposed to have some special crimping advantage when crimped. And they seem to be made of copper, not brass. That may mean the difference.

Will try and contact Hornady and see if they'll send a sample pak on them for a slight fee.

I may have to settle for the gaschecks being seated at .4295 while the rest of the bullet is .430.

Jim

 

[LHB1]

Jim,
Wish you had posted this before Christmas. While cleaning up my reloading bench, I threw away several thousand Lyman and Hornady gas checks still in the original metal containers. Turned out that I never used the pistol caliber gas checks (.357 and .44) and have stopped shooting cast bullets in rifles. My .44 loads use bullets cast from H&G moulds with wheel weights and sized .430 in Star sizer with NRA formula lube (50% ALOX, 50% pure beeswax). I shoot these at 1425 fps thru S&W M629's with insignificant leading for 100 shots. Good luck with your reloading efforts.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

ps: The old style Lyman gas checks didn't crimp on and could come off after firing. The Hornady gas checks were thicker right at the mouth so that they crimped into the bullet heel and did NOT come off after firing.

 

[44and45]

LB, I think I'm using the same lube as you, its the Lyman Alox brown stuff. Bought about 15 sticks couple of years ago off the ebay. Just now starting to use the stuff in the star luber, seems to work very well without the heater being turned on.

At least I think its got beeswax in it, I'll find out when I start shooting again after the spring thaw up here. The beeswax sort of smokey isn't it?

Sorry to hear I missed out on your GC ejections...would have like to got some of those.

I'm shooting these older S&W 2nd models that have been restored to look and shoot great once again. It would seem like the lead .429 bullets will obuterate to expand through the cylinder throats OK, but don't know about the blinking gascheck ones.

I tried some .4295 GC ones push through the throats and they just fall through with no resistance, that's why I thought I might needs some GC that measure out at .430 diameter. I don't know if these slightly undersized bullets with GC will bump up enough to seal the chamber throats properly.

I'm concerned about gas blow-by on the bullets bases.


Jim

 

[LHB1]

Jim,
Yeah, the ALOX lube is a little smoky but sure does wonders to prevent leading. "Gas blow-by" occurs when the burning powder gases slip by the bullet because it fails to obturate and fill the throat/barrel. Right? If your .430 bullets will obturate and stop the gases, then it might not matter if the gas check is slightly smaller unless your load velocity is extremely high. Of course in that case, the gas check will only be preventing heat from melting bullet base and might even be omitted with no problem. Have heard of some people shooting reduced heel bullets without the gas checks. Have you tried some loads with the slightly smaller gas check diameter or even without the g.c.? What velocity do you expect? I read somewhere years ago that gas checks added 5,000 psi to a given pistol load.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[44and45]

LB, I'm shooting older S&W revolvers like the 2nd and 3rd models, so conseqently shoot reduced moderate loads only...nothing over 850 fps velocity.

Haven't been able to shoot yet this year, snow is still a problem getting into our two local shooting ranges.

I'm hoping these .4295 GC bullets will obturate enough to seal the cylinder throats against gas pressure by-pass doing any body lead melting on said bullets.

Weather is getting some warmer, its been near 40 the last couple of days and promises to be 55 around thursday or friday.

I've got a glacier hanging off my garage roof above the double door entry, its about 5 inches thick and weighes several hundred pounds. It will eventually melt and fall off making a big mess of broken ice. Its a crap shoot running the car in and out under it...let alone walking under it.

Jim

 

[LHB1]

Jim,
I hope neither you nor your car are under the glacier when it decides to fall. Good luck with your reloads and your weather. The mild, short winters here in Houston typically consist of 2-3 cold fronts that drop the temp under freezing for 6-12 hours at a time. Of course our summer is at least 6 months long with hot and humid weather. Load now, shoot later.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[LAH]

Are the gas checks tight after sizing or will they turn on the shank?

 

[44and45]

Hello, LAH.

The gachecks are tight after running them through the 450 sizer, but are not tight when only run through the Star lube-sizer.

After first running them through the Lyman 450 luber press (dryly, no lube) with a .430 lube die, they are then tight but undersize to .4295 compared to the .430 upper lead body of the bullet. The Star press does not seem to do gaschecks well.

Some say there can be a spring back effect to the Lyman brass GC after being sized bumped up to .430 and that annealing is the solution to stopping the spring-back effect. Question is, how long do you heat them with a propane toarch to anneal them.

I'm presently trying to get some sample pak of Hornady GC from them in their copper made ones in .44 and .45 calibers.

Soon the weather will erase the snow bound gun ranges and I can go and test these .44 moderate loaded cartridges with their .005 undersize GC fittings.

They may shoot Ok.


Jim

 

[LAH]

You said: The gachecks are tight after running them through the 450 sizer, but are not tight when only run through the Star lube-sizer.


If the sizing dies are the same diameter inside this would make no difference.
.430 is .430. Perhaps your Lyman die is a little smaller at the bottom? I used the Stars to seat thousands of gas checks while running Dry Creek Bullet Works with no problems at all. Have you measured the gas checks diameter before placing them on the bullet?

I'm not sure how old your Lyman gas checks are? The old ones weren't made to crimp like the Hornady's. The newer Lyman's are made by Hornady so they are both the same...........Creeker

 

[44and45]

Now that is indeed interesting. This box of 1K Lyman .44 GC's were purchased off of ebay a couple of years back, they were in an old type box that was used maybe 30 years ago. So, they are difinetly very old type GC.

They measure out of the box before sizing at .426 diameter, and they will obturate up to .4295 in a .430 die, but apparantly spring back from going up to .430 diameter.

I therefore suspect they are not suitable for sizing any larger, but haven't tried annealing yet.

Can anyone out there measure a modern made GC sold today and tell me what the cup diameter is before sizing. How about the Hornady copper ones.

I emailed Hornady about this problem but they have not replied yet.


Jim

 

[Randall]

Are you using the gascheck seater and then sizing?

 

[44and45]

I hate to admit this, but I haven't a clue what a gascheck seater is?

Is it an O-ring or something like that?

Anyone got a picture of one...then we'll both know what they look like.

My gaschecks just slip on fairly snuggly most of the time, unless a lead bullet got cast rather short in completely filling out in the mould. Not very many get by me like that.

But when these GC fit snuggly on they are only .426 diameter, so therein is the problem me thinks.

I hoping a more recent mfg. of a GC will do wonders in my desiring a .430 GC bullet.


Jim

 

[LAH]

A gas check seater is used on the Lyman 450 etc. to keep the bullet from entering the sizing die. It keeps the center pin in the die from going down allow the gas check to be seated.

You can take a small piece of metal and lay over the nut that holds the die in the sizer body. Place the gas check on the shank of the bullet and sit it on the metal. Lower the nose punch to the bullet and pull down easy till you feel the bullet bottom out in the gas check. You can seat all your checks like this and then run them through the die.

With the Star I seated the checks with the bullet punch while sizing nose first except for a few 45 caliber rifle bullets I made. I have some Hornady checks still packed somewhere but who knows where so I can't help with the measurements.

I do know the Hornady checks worked fine for everything I cast except rifle bullets sized .458, .459, & .460. The 45 checks they sold were to small in diameter so I purchase custom checks for those.

 

[44and45]

Yes, I've tried that metal plate business to seat the gaschecks -- used the O-wrench that removes the die nut in the 450 press.

Though it did nothing to help these poor undersized .426 gacchecks to bump up in the .430 lube die...they still come out .4295.

I will have to try some of those Hornady copper GC they make today. Using those old undersized Lyman brass ones isn't getting the job done.

Certainly wish to thank all who have mentioned their take on this situation.

Jim

 

[1911Tuner]

Gas Check

You shouldn't have a problem with gas cutting past the check with only .0005 inch difference in sizing. Once the pressure slams into the base of the cup, the lead should upset and let the cup seal. I've had gas checks that much under bullet diameter and had zero flame-cut leading with .30 caliber rifle bullets at 2400 fps.

 

[44and45]

1911tuner, thanks.

I'll bet you are right after all my fussing and fretting. At least I certainly hope so.

Jim