.44 mag crimp how does it look?

[Simon B]

well I posted last week with a crimp problem the OP was titled (First time Loading 44 MAG for My Smith&Wesson Revolver and this happened.....). I was told that the crimp was not enough and that I needed to seat bullets deeper and crimp harder, So it tried it. the pictures below show 2 bullets seated deeper and crimped harder per the instructions on my lee die set, also shown are the way the cartridges were origanaly loaded with not enough crimp and not seated deep enough. That beig said I still cant tell if I have crimped enough and the nose of the bullet has been deformed, if you look closely you should be able to see that the two bullets seated deeper have a flatter nose. Although they are deformed from original they are still very uniformed. so can someone please help me out and let me know what you think the crimp looks like? I wanted to get a nice roll crimp but I am afraid I will damage my bullets or the brass. I'm wondering if I should just give up and get a lee factory crimp die. Feed back, thoughts, ideas, and instructions would be greatly appreciated. Also COL went from 1.600 to 1.572 is that to deep?
Thank You.

 

[dawico]

I was in the original thread, and I didn't think it was a crimp issue. The first crimp looks fine. The second (first pic) is way too much, and you shouldn't be damaging the bullet like that.

I still think it is bullet tension. Measure the case at the bullet and under it. If they are the same, then there is not enough tension. The bullet should expand the case out as it is seated. Look at the pictures in the other thread, and you will see what I mean. It could be undersized bullets, or your sizing die is not to spec.

 

[Simon B]

Yes I remember that being mentioned. For some reason in the pictures you can not see the bulge in the case. I took some measurements at the bullet on the case is .452.5 and below the bullet is .450 even. what do you think? should it be more than a couple thousands? do you think the newly seated and crimped bullets are dangerous? i only did two cartridges like that. bullet sizes all measured at .429, let me know what you think and thanks for the help.

 

[W.E.G.]

do you think the newly seated and crimped bullets are dangerous?

Not in the least.

 

[Walkalong]

You over adjusted things.

Back off, and get the case mouth in the center of the cannelure.

 

[JimKirk]

Follow Walkalong's advise...

I'll add a tip that I found to work ... always seat the bullet a fuzz deeper than half way of the cannelure ... because the brass shortens in length as the crimp is rolled inwards. That way it ends up in the middle of the cannelure and will hold the best there.

Jimmy K

 

[243winxb]

Bullet Seating Adjustment

The trick is to set the bullet seating depth first, then the crimp. This is done as follows; With an empty, sized case in the shell holder, hold the ram at the top of its stroke. Turn the bullet seating die body down over the case until you feel it come to a stop. This will be when the case mouth contacts the crimp shoulder inside the die. Mark this position by turning the lock ring down against the turret or press frame. Now adjust your bullet seating depth. Once you have the bullet seated to the desired depth, back the bullet seater adjuster out about 1 turn. Now turn the bullet seating die body in to apply the desired crimp. Once this is established, hold the ram at the top of its stroke and spin the bullet seater adjuster down until it stops.

It is a good idea to carry this out with an empty case, so that after you have seated the bullet, you have a perfectly safe "dummy" cartridge (or gauge) to repetitively set seating depth and crimp on future occasions.

Once you have this "dummy" gauge, all you have to do is place it in the shell holder, raise the ram to the top of its stroke, turn the bullet seating body down until it stops, and then turn the bullet seating depth adjuster in until it stops. Since the crimp and the seating depth were already set, the die will return to very close to the same settings.

 

[243winxb]

Seating depth variations

There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug. Another possible cause for bullet seating depth variation is seating and crimping at the same time when trying to apply a firm crimp to untrimmed cases. Variation in case length also causes variation in the amount of crimp applied. Long cases get a heavier crimp than short ones. When seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is formed as the bullet is seated into the case. The crimp will form sooner on a long case, and therefore the bullet will not be seated as deeply. The solution is to seat and crimp in a separate steps and/or trim cases to a uniform length.



The amount of force required to cycle a progressive press varies with the number of cases in the shell plate. When the shell plate is full, it is harder to lower the lever than when there are one or two cases present. This can lead to variation in cartridge overall length because there are different loads placed on the working parts of the press. When the shell plate is full, seating depth will be slightly long, because the load is higher and all of the clearances are taken up. With the shell plate nearly empty, the load is not great enough to squeeze out these clearances, and the seating depth is short.

 

[No-ladder]

I would consider starting with the flat nose plug it looks like you are using the "round nose". It also looks as though you are still seating the bullet after the crimp is applied. I don't know anything about your set-up, but on mine I would move the die up from the shell plate a bit
With jacketed bullets I don't like to crimp with a roll so much a taper. Are you having problems with bullets backing out hence the need for for a heavy crimp? I missed the
previous thread.
Lee

 

[Walkalong]

I'll add a tip that I found to work ... always seat the bullet a fuzz deeper than half way of the cannelure ... because the brass shortens in length as the crimp is rolled inwards. That way it ends up in the middle of the cannelure and will hold the best there.

Exactly.