44 magnum load too hot???

[B Man]

I've been reading alot of discussions here to decide on some things for my new handgun, and finally decided to join for some knowledge after a recent trip to the range with some new rounds.

I just bought a Tuarus M44 with a 8 3/8" barrel for hunting, and so far I love this gun. I've been brought up in the outdoors & around guns and liked to learn everything possible about them and ammunition as far as ballistics and performance. I'm just now getting ready to get into reloading.

My main question is that I just got some reloads from a guy for my pistol for hog hunting and thi up coming deer season to pratice with and this is how it's loaded. Hornady 240gr. XTP, 1.603" total lenght, Winchester brass, CCI primer, and 24.7gr. of H-110 powder at 1450 FPS he said. Is this to hot of a load? Reason asked is because after 15 or so rounds they got to where they wouldn't come out the cylinder without pushing them out with a screwdriver. And the empty cases will not fall back in the cylinder without pushing them in and they get tighter the farther you push it in. I guess the brass is swelled close the the rim. I also shot 50rds. of 44 S&W special cowbay loads prior to this.

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[forquidder]

Over max

This is the 240 grain load from the Hodgdon site using a Nosler JHP.

240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 1.600"
23.0 1413 25,200 CUP
24.0 1522 36,200 CUP

Most powder manufacturers post load information on line so you can look it up if you have a question.
Your load is .7 grains over max according to this formula.
I'm assuming that the load wasn't worked up in your particular gun and while it may work okay in the gun the load was worked up in, it may be a little hot for your 44.

 

[harmonic]

after 15 or so rounds they got to where they wouldn't come out the cylinder without pushing them out with a screwdriver

I'd say that could definitely be a sign the loads are too hot. The next sign you get might be when you're walking around with the rear sight assembly sticking out of your forehead.

I don't think I'd shoot somebody else's reloads if I were you.

 

[waverace]

+1 on way too hot , 1200 fps is plenty fast enough , I shoot even lighter loads at about 900 fps and they still bury themselves at least 6" into a tree at 40 yards , the only reason for going faster is to maybe give faster expansion on the bullet or maybe more range but personaly I wouldnt hunt at more than 100 yards with a pistol anyhoo .
Load your own using the data from the powder manufacturers or buy factory then you wont ever run the risk of an accident .
Lighter loads in general tend to be more accurate too .

 

[Hutch]

I've loaded hotter H110, but not much, and not any more. And that was for a Redhawk. Got a carbine you can shoot them in?

 

[B Man]

Yeah it's a ruger lever action 44 mag.

After what all happened at the range I started doing some reading on here and went to Hodgdon website and saw the same information posted above about max. loads. I'm going to get them down loaded to around 23 gr.

Thanks for the help

 

[JG2000]

You also might have some lead build up that is increasing pressure. If those cowboy rounds were cast it can cause problems going back to jacketed without a good cleaning. I missed a deer last year because of that issue. After shooting several hundred .44 specials I did a light cleaning and went hunting. I took two well aimed and steadied shots using 240gr jacketed soft points but the buck just romped off unscathed. Took it to the range and was shooting 2 feet low at 50 yards. The brass was also swelled up around the base. Cleaned the snot out of it and everything is back to normal. Not saying those loads aren't to hot for your gun but there might be some other factors that are working against you.

 

[ATAShooter]

I shoot silouette with a S&W .44 mag. My 8 3/8 barrel loves 1200 fps with a 240gr bullet. I think you might wanna back it down a tad.

 

[Big44mag]

That load is too hot for that particular firearm. If you read the manual, it states

"Taurus revolvers were designed to use cartridges loaded to the limits shown
below. Other cartridges of various types or bullet weights may or may not
function acceptably; such ammunition should be thoroughly tested by the
user before relying on it. Because of the widely differing specifications of
such other ammunition, Taurus cannot be responsible for malfunctions
resulting from its use."

A friend of mine had a 44 Taurus Tracker years ago and in his manual it said that the max COL was 1.600 as well, but I didn't see that in the online PDF manual.

The use of handloads voids all warranties, and it is "bad" to dry fire this firearm.

These are the posted limits of Taurus firearms in max bullet weight and max velocity.

17 HMR....................................................17 GR 2525 FPS
218 BEE ..................................................46 GR 2760 FPS
22LR ........................................................40 GR 1280 FPS
22 WRF MAGNUM ..................................40 GR 1480 FPS
22 HORNET ............................................40 GR 2690 FPS
30 CARBINE ............................................110 GR 1990 FPS
32 S&W LONG ........................................98 GR 789 FPS
32 H&R MAGNUM ..................................96 GR 1100 FPS
38 SPL ....................................................158 GR 755 FPS
357 MAGNUM..........................................158 GR 1450 FPS
41 MAGNUM............................................210 GR 1300 FPS
44 S&W SPL............................................200 GR 900 FPS
44 MAGNUM............................................240 GR 1350 FPS
45 ACP ....................................................225 GR 900 FPS
45 LONG COLT........................................255 GR 900 FPS
454 CASULL ............................................300 GR 1625 FPS
480 RUGER ............................................325 GR 1350 FPS

http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/manual_revolver.pdf

Pages 8 and 9.

 

[LB7_Driver]

Too hot!

A 240 gn bullet with almost 25 grains of H-110?
I sure would not shoot 'em!

Also, the pressure signs you describe are classic indicators that the loads are too hot. This one's a no-brainer.

 

[ds/ks]

23.5gr H110
240gr. JHP
Good hunting load

 

[B Man]

Thanks for the help fellas. I called him this morning and got me a box of the same bullet loaded with 23.5 gr. of H110 as described above.

Also i checked every brass for any signs of over pressure and the only thing found was the base of the brass was slightly swelling. BUT, I bought a box of the old winchester 240gr. JSP bullets today and they would stick in the chamber & the brass was swelled the same. Both are W-W Super brass. Also they would not group well at all.
I'm going to do as JG2000 said and give this thing a really good cleaning.

 

[.38 Special]

As a slight aside, "I just got some reloads from a guy" strikes terror into the hearts of a lot of folks, me included.

You're placing you gun, your fingers, your vision, and a bunch of other more-or-less important bits into the hands of this guy. Obviously I can't tell you whether to trust him or not -- but it bears thinking about, IMO.

 

[rcmodel]

There sure is something to be said for "working up loads in your gun".

rcmodel

 

[Big44mag]

Brandon, do you happen to know what chrony he used and what firearm to come up with 24.7gr @ 1450fps? Hodgdon has 24gr running 1522fps listed on their site.

 

[DEDON45]

My Hornady 7th editions shows the absolute max for the 240gr XTP, .44 Magnum (Revolver loads, not T/C or Rifle) is 24.8 Grains of H110... however, the true maximum load is determined by the gun you're shooting it in; some can take more of a beating, or are built to tighter tolerances, etc. than others. I, myself, and my shooting / reloading buddy, run that same bullet with 24 grains of H110... no pressure signs, and the cases are easily ejected from the cylinder. I could probably run them all the way up to 24.8, but I don't see the need to. I like having a little room in case there's some sort of malfunction in my powder measure (nothing's ever happened, though). We are firing these in a Ruger Super Redhawk, and a Ruger Super Blackhawk, arguably some of the strongest revolvers made (I'd love to have a Freedom Arms revolver too)... if you are getting sticky case extraction, then yes, I'd say those are too hot for your gun... might not be so in a different one. I'd back off on those loads, and work back up to a new maximum.

Incidentally, I did just get a new chronograph (Competition Electronics Digital), and was testing this very load (24 grains of H110 and the 240 grain XTP bullet) Tuesday... in my 8 1/2 (or is it 9 inch, can't remember right now, it's a long one) Super Redhawk, the chrony was showing an average of 1448fps. In my friend's 6 1/2 Blackhawk, it was showing an average of 1290 (these were his loads with a different primer, think we figured out that WLP's in these aren't all they're cracked up to be). Plenty fast. With CCI 300 (non magnum--this was an experiment) primers he was getting an average of 1335 fps.

Oh, and ditto on the "reloads from a guy" being a bit scary... I only shoot my reloads, or my best friend's reloads... I know how he does things, and he knows how I do 'em. I've heard too many stories about "anonymous" reloads blowing up guns.

 

[waverace]

If you want a job done right do it yourself !
Plus you'll have more fun

 

[VegasOPM]

As an aside, I have found that shooting a string of maximum loads tends to make some revolvers start to have stuck cases or lock up. The heat makes the cylinders expand.

Pull the bullets or find a Ruger or a Freedom Arms to use them up.

 

[Bezoar]

could it be an issue of using cases one to many times then they were intended for? Like reload a case 6 times instead of the safe/recommended 4 times with that kind of load?

 

[depoloni]

I own a Taurus M444, blued, with an 8-1/2" barrel. Same gun as the original poster.

I've worked up a bunch of loads with the chronograph - and believe those H-110 loads are too hot. Factory listed max is 24.0gr of H-110.

In cool weather, i.e. 50-60F, the "max" load of 24.0 grains behind a Nosler 240-gr JHP yields 1390fps. That's at 1.604" overall length. With 240 Hornady XTPs I get an average of 1360fps with the exact same load and OAL.

INTERESTINGLY enough, I recently tested those same 24.0gr loads on a warm, 85F day and happened to leave the ammo box in direct sunlight. Much to my surprise admittedly, those SAME loads pushed 240 Nosler JHPs to and average of (!) 1634 fps. That's hot, REALLY hot for a pistol. The rounds did NOT bind on me as yours did although admittedly they did snug the cylinder somewhat - no lockup but I was VERY close.

In cold weather, I'd say those 24.7 loads are STILL hot but probably not crazy. In warm weather, from my experience with the "exact same" pistol (although each is slightly different of course) those 24.7gr loads are pushing - exceeding really - the limits of better judgement.

I've got loads worked up in that M444 revolver with my chronograph for H-110, W-231, HS-6, 2400, and 4227.... faster powders for cast though. I load 240gr hardcast lead FRNs, milder/softer lead SWC's, Nosler JHP/JSP and Hornady XTP. Drop me a line if anyone's interested. For that matter, check http://www.4shared.com/file/49338106/ac0926cf/LOAD-CHRONY_SHEET.html if you've got excel. Some, although not all, of my load data from this spring in 44mag (and I think 9mm) is there.

 

[dwave]

Lol, my logic is this: If you have to ask, then yes. Served me well.

 

[Clark]

I have been shooting 24 gr 240 gr JHP in my S&W29-4 44 mag for 10 years.

I am sure I could shoot hotter.
But why?
It kicks just right.