.44 magnum vs .454 Casull: Which is more popular for bear defense?

[Alaska444]

Greg Brush made headline news a couple of years ago when he successfully defended his life against a large predatory grizzly attack with his Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull. The popularity of this woods gun jumped after his story became a national sensation. However, one aspect of the story is quite bothersome; the fact that his gun jammed from his high powered loads from a jump crimp issue.

Brush finally fell on his back on the edge of the road. Miraculously, the bear collapsed a mere five feet from his boot soles, leaving claw marks in the road where Brush had—only seconds before—been standing. The bear was moaning, his huge head still moving, as Brush aimed the Ruger to fire a finishing shot. “By then my gun had jammed,” Greg says. “I frantically called my wife on my cell phone and told her to bring a rifle. When she arrived I finished the bear.”

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photo...grizzly-killed-alaska?photo=2#node-1001334546

Which is a more viable and popular option, the .44 magnum with available loads such as the Buffalo Bore +P+ 340 gr that approaches .454 Casull levels, or the more powerful .454 Casull that some avoid due to high recoil?

 

[CraigC]

For most users, the .44Mag is all they can handle and is plenty potent with the right load.

 

[JohnM]

If the bullets jumped with the Casull, they just weren't loaded right.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That'd be kinda scary. I bet he tests his handloads (if they indeed were) a little more in the future.
I'd feel "comfortable" with a 4" or so .44mag. I used to really like the Smith 29's (especially in big bear country) but had one too many break on me. I'd probably go with a DA Ruger with heavy and heavily tested handloads.

 

[firesky101]

You ask two questions. Popular or Better? Better, if you can control it .454. Popular, I would imagine hands down .44mag.

 

[Cosmoline]

Ten years ago it was the .44 Mag without question. But these days the .454 has become much more wide spread, and the .44 Mag is becoming something of a second runner to it. The giant X-Frames in the super-dooper magnums like the .500 don't seem to have caught on as widely.

 

[Alaska444]

Ten years ago it was the .44 Mag without question. But these days the .454 has become much more wide spread, and the .44 Mag is becoming something of a second runner to it. The giant X-Frames in the super-dooper magnums like the .500 don't seem to have caught on as widely.

Very true. The .500 S&W gets you near large bore rifle ballistics, but most of the folks according to my gun store sell the .500 S&W after trying it out for a while. Just a brutal and punishing revolver. If folks can handle that kind of beast, more power to them.

I went with the .44 magnum in part due to the availability of the +P+ BB 340 gr ammo. Buffalo Bore does not max out their .454 Casull loads due to the jump crimp issue. It sounds like it is not simply reloads that have the jump crimp issue.

454 Casull Ammo - 325 gr. L.B.T. - L.F.N. (1,525 fps/M.E. 1,678 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

The .454 Casull is one cartridge that Buffalo Bore Ammunition does not load to it's full pressure limit. When loaded to it's full pressure potential the .454 Casull can become unreliable and unpleasant to shoot. At upper pressure levels, heavy bullets tend to jump crimp - tying up the cylinder. (wouldn't this be great in an emergency) Also, fired brass can stick in the chambers.

Buffalo Bore Ammunition feels that a 360 gr. bullet (or 325 gr. bullet at 1525 fps) at 1425 fps is still very powerful, comfortable to shoot, and TOTALLY RELIABLE. At these levels, these bullets give up nothing in killing performance.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=56

 

[56hawk]

If the bullets jumped with the Casull, they just weren't loaded right.

Can you give me any hints? All my full power loads jump in my FA 83. I went from 340 grain bullets to 300s just because they are shorter and will not jam the gun when they jump. I've only ever had one 44 jump and that was because it wasn't crimped.

 

[Alaska444]

You ask two questions. Popular or Better? Better, if you can control it .454. Popular, I would imagine hands down .44mag.

With the jump crimp issue, could it also be possible that the .44 magnum with top loads would be more reliable and therefore "better" as well? Aside from the punishing aspects of shooting a full load .454 Casull which I did, the jump crimp issue made my decision between the two settled by choosing the .44 magnum instead.

Ruger SRH Alaskan In .454 (Crimp Creep Test)

Finally, this test has made it obvious that firing .454 ammunition is quite, shall we say, stressful to other cartridges in the gun. I would strongly recommend that, if you use your .454 as a backup gun, that you rotate your ammunition. Better yet, when you’ve shot a couple of rounds, simply go ahead and fire off the other rounds in the cylinder. Starting with fresh ammunition every time is probably the best insurance against crimp jump and the potential disaster that could result from it.

http://www.scopedin.com/articles/equipment-tests/454-casull-cartridge-crimp-creep/

 

[hardluk1]

If you all ready own a 44mag and depending on the make and model you can shoot this load. It is very close to what a 454 cassul can do. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9

Ruger , freedon and Dan Wesson some taurus can handle these can handle them and at that point you or the bear ain't going to know the difference.

 

[CraigC]

Fact is, you don't need to run them that fast. All you're getting is more muzzle blast, harsher recoil and a flatter trajectory with no appreciable gain in lethality. Getting the heaviest bullet one can find up to 1200-1300fps is plenty. That said, I've never had a problem with bullets jumping crimp with 330's at 1350fps or 355's at 1250fps from the .44Mag. If you need 'more', you need more bullet, not more velocity.

 

[Alaska444]

If you all ready own a 44mag and depending on the make and model you can shoot this load. It is very close to what a 454 cassul can do. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=9

Ruger , freedon and Dan Wesson some taurus can handle these can handle them and at that point you or the bear ain't going to know the difference.

Gotta love that BB +P+ .44 magnum ammo.

With this crossing the boundary most often associated with .454 Casull combined with the jump crimp issue, in the right revolver, I can't see much of an advantage with the .454 Casull also considering recoil issues as well. My vote is the .44 magnum as better and more popular when you add in reliablity from the jump crimp issue and recoil.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I haven't had crimp jumping issues with my .454 with max loads using even 360gr bullets. For those having issues consult the Speer manual on how to apply a heavy taper crimp that actually necks down the case into the crimp groove or cannelure. This has to be done it a separate step from seating the bullet. If you are loading heavy .454 and crimping and seating bullets in the same operation you are doing it wrong. I use a Redding competition seating die to seat bullets and then use a taper crimp die to apply the crimp, slowly and carefully so I don't bulge the case. If you are shooting jacketed bullets they need to have a cannelure at least .060" long to accomplish this crimp. It also works on cast bullets that have good deep crimp grooves, and will push the brass down all the way into the crimp groove. Again take care to do this slowly so you don't bulge the case.

 

[DennisE]

I think the 44 is still far more popular. However if you asked folks as they stood facing a real bear attack I believe most would perfer to have a 454 in their hands! Dennis

 

[Certaindeaf]

I wonder how those +P+ BB's would do in one of those Titanium Smith .44mags?
I know the reason S&W puts "+P jacketed only" on the barrel of their Scandium etc .38's is to preclude bullet jump with stout loads using lead.

Those things are light!

 

[firesky101]

I wonder how those +P+ BB's would do in one of those Titanium Smith .44mags?

I would suggest using a string to pull the trigger if your curiosity gets the best of you.

 

[JohnM]

Get a 460 S&W Mag, then you can use 45 Colt for light loads, 454 Casull for medium, and the 460 S&W for full bore howitzer loads.

 

[pintler]

I wonder how those +P+ BB's would do in one of those Titanium Smith .44mags?

FWIW, Garrett sells a reduced load (from memory, 310 gr@ 1050 or so) for the 329. In his opinion the stouter loads he sells, while safe to fire, generate too much recoil.

I have a 329 and use his reduced loads. The recoil is similar to a S&W 500 with commercial loads, enough, I think that the reduced loads are probably wise.

I think Garrett still gets 5 feet of penetration with the reduced load, so you're not giving up very much.

 

[109Hammer]

lol......true

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I voted for .454 only because you didn't have 460 magnum as an option.

 

[Alaska444]

I voted for .454 only because you didn't have 460 magnum as an option.

The .454 Casull made my hand go numb for about five minutes. I guess I have found my personal limit. .44 Magnum works just fine for me. I guess the .460 is beyond that tolerance for me personally. But if you can handle it, the more gun the better no doubt.

 

[gfanikf]

I prefer a SBR Barrett with Folding Stock, but that's just me.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Wildmustang]

Just my 2 cents (note that I have never had a duel with a bear, just something I have read that seemed reasonable on the issue). I believe it was said that with the .44 mag you need a 7.5-10 inch barrel to do major damage on a bear, whether that is true or not I'm not sure. Given the two, I would go with the .44 because I have a lot more trigger time behind the .44 than the .454. Also follow up shots with the .454 casul would be harder. I would say just shoot them both and pick whatever your most comfortable with. A .44 that hits is deadlier than a .454 that misses.

 

[colima]

I generally reload all of my .45 ACP and .357 ammo. Saves a lot of money on a 200-300 round range session.

But I find that my FA 83 in .454 Casull tests my limits to handle recoil.
I rarely shoot more than ten rounds during a session.
So it isn't really worth it to me to reload - I just buy Hornady or Winchester factory loads. I hope these are more resistant to jumping crimp.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

The .454 Casull made my hand go numb for about five minutes. I guess I have found my personal limit. .44 Magnum works just fine for me. I guess the .460 is beyond that tolerance for me personally. But if you can handle it, the more gun the better no doubt

I'm curious what platform were you shooting the .454 out of? Ruger Alaskan, SRH, Freedom Arms, Taurus?

I shoot a S&W 460V. It's a 4 lb gun and has a Hogue decelerator grip on it. Both factors help absorb a huge amount of the recoil, but it does still pack a wallup. Poping off 5 rounds of 325 gr hard cast HSM loads is a challenge, but certainly doable. Fortunately grizz are big targets, although the actual zone you want to hit is very small when you are paniced and it's coming at you like a freight train.

With a grizz in question, I want as much ability to penetrate as possible and still handle follow up shots. I want broken bones on that animal. I certainly think a .44 or .454 would suffice though. The 460 is an absurdity in my mind which is what drew me to it to begin with. I also love the versatility. The 5" bbl balances very well for me. If you haven't tryed one, you should at least once!