44 Remington Magnum, IMR 4227, Heavy Lead Bullets

[Tempus Tom]

Hello friends,

I’m new to reloading and need some advice from some more experienced minds.

I’ve been loading 44 magnum 300 grain lead projectiles using IMR 4227 and noticed something strange with the available published data.

Everywhere I look the max charge for a 300 grain lead bullet using 4227 is about 19 grains of powder.

However, using the same sources (Lee, Hodgdon, Lyman), the max charge for heavier lead 44 magnum bullets is more than 19 grains.

For example, the max charge for a 330 grain bullet is 20.7 grains of IMR 4227. And the max charge for a gigantic 355 grain lead 44 magnum bullet is…..19 grains. The same amount of powder that I’m supposed to use for a 300 grain bullet.

Also, the published pressure created by using 19 grains of 4227 behind a 300 grain lead bullet is substantially lower than other powders.

Why is this? Why is it safe to use 20.7 grains of 4227 on a 330 grain bullet, but it’s not safe to use more than 19 grains of the same powder on a 300 grain bullet?

To be clear……..I’m NOT going to load more than what the published data recommends, but I want to understand what’s going on. Is this an error in the data? Or is there some other risk posed by using more than 19 grains of 4227 on a 300 grain bullet?

Or would the 300 grain lead bullet not perform well traveling faster than the speed 19 grains of 4227 sends it? And that's why the books say to stop at 19 grains?

And lastly, does someone know of a published 44 mag load using 300 grain lead bullets and IMR 4227 that is more than 19 grains?

Any accurate input would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

 

[JimKirk]

I can't say for 300 grain ...but has always been really good with 250 grain cast in my .44 Mag.....

 

[Hartkopf]

It must have something to do with the overall length called for and the location of the base of the bullet. Basically you can load all the volume you can with such a bulky, slow powder. I’m having trouble reading the data you posted on my crappy little phone but the heavier bullets call for longer COAL so I’m guessing the base of the bullet is slightly higher, allowing for a bit more powder. This is all just my half educated guess.

 

[Charlie98]

It must have something to do with the overall length called for and the location of the base of the bullet. Basically you can load all the volume you can with such a bulky, slow powder. I’m having trouble reading the data you posted on my crappy little phone but the heavier bullets call for longer COAL so I’m guessing the base of the bullet is slightly higher, allowing for a bit more powder. This is all just my half educated guess.

That's kind of what I was thinking, that and maybe bearing surface, ogive shape, or even bullet hardness, etc.
Looking at the data you posted... the Hodgdon data is what I would expect to see, and luck has it... they are using the same brand bullet for all 3 weights. Look at their charge weights and pressure, and you can see it's quite linear, with the expected bump in pressure with the heavy bullet. The 2nd photo, which looks like Lee data, there is a similar gap in pressures between the bullets, much like the Hornady data, albiet in PSI, not CUP, and same with the 3rd data set.

There are other things to consider as well... barrel rifling for one. Overdriving a bullet in a quick twist barrel is not a good thing, for example.

Remember... loading data is a bit nebulous. What you see in a manual may be completely different that what you get from your loads in your firearm. Reloading data is a guide... a very good one most times, but nothing is guaranteed to work everywhere by everyone. There is also the potential of publishing errors.

 

[Tempus Tom]

I too wondered if it had to do with case capacity and maybe the specific 300 grain lead bullets used in testing didn't allow for longer COAL.

Many lead bullets used in 44 mag have several places where you can crimp the bullet allowing for different overall length.

 

[WrongHanded]

My guess (as has been said by others) is that case volume below the bullet base has a lot to do with it. Some bullet designs put a lot more weight towards the nose, and thus outside of the case. Evidently IMR-4227 is limited more by case volume than pressure with heavy .44 mag bullets.

I do have a Handloaded article for Redhawk Only .44 magnum loads. IMR-4227 is conspicuously absent. Likely due to this limiting factor of case volume.

If you want more velocity, I'd suggest looking into Alliant 300-MP. It works very well under 300gr .44 mags.

 

[forrest r]

Unless the bullet you're using is grossly oversized the case volume will always have more affect on pressure. The deeper the bullet is seated (less case volume) the higher the pressure when using the same load.





When working up your loads you will be able to tell when you're getting close to max simply because the loads will burn cleaner.

 

[Charlie98]

In my fairly limited use, IMR4227 is happier at full case charges. My first starting loads were terrible... poor velocity, poor performance... but as the charge increased, so did the performance, and it cleaned up very nicely. I went from hating it, to loving it, and now it's my primary powder in the .41MAG rifle. It works in the pistol, but you need barrel length to maximize the slower powder; the caveat to that is W296/H110, which work very well in pistol, more so than IMR4227 or 2400 in my experience, when trying to achieve maximum velocity.

Many lead bullets used in 44 mag have several places where you can crimp the bullet allowing for different overall length.

As far as cast bullets, usually the first groove is the crimping groove, the other(s) are lube grooves... not that you can't crimp in a lube groove, but it's not normally the best place. Revolvers in particular are sensitive to cartridge OAL, so you are limited to what the cylinder can take. Rifle is another story... my single-shot .45-70, for example, I seat some bullets 1/2" out past the crimp groove... to match my chamber and barrel rifling leade. Further, even when loading jacketed bullets for some cartridges, I ignore the cannelure in some cases because I'm seating to an OAL measurement, not a generic spot (the cannelure.) It just depends.

 

[AJC1]

There are 3 limits that I am aware of that you can evaluate
1. The amount of bearing surface can raise and lower pressure.
2. Your case volume after bullet is seated to functional oal based on feeding requirements or bullet ojive shape
3. Maximum bullet speed. In the case of lead that's when you either get leading or terrible accuracy based on the bullet hardness. The speed is a major factor when loading 4227 in 308 as it easily passes 2200 before half sammi pressure.

 

[murf]

your 300 grain load data is for a plain-base linotype bullet. the other data is for gas checked bullets. plain-base bullets tend to lead at top 44 mag pressures. if you bullet has a gas check, you can run em' faster. if you bullet is plain based and heat treated, you can run it faster. so, what bullet are you using? a pic will help.

luck,

murf

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Take a look at the 1967 Lyman #44 and compare the .44 rifle vs handgun data for IMR4227. By the way, IMR stands for Improved Military Rifle - that’s a good starting point for researching the reasons why different loads are recommended for pistol vs rifle and soft cast vs hard cast, etc.