.44 Special in thin-walled apartment?

[Yoda]

All - - -

I'm looking for opinions. I've moved from a condo with 3-inch concrete walls between the units to an apartment with standard 2x4 wood studs and wallboard separating the units.

In the old condo, I was confident that a Ruger .45 ACP P-90 would never penetrate the walls. (Actually, I was more concerned about ricochets!). However, in the new apartment, penetration is an issue.

I've also got a new wife who is OK with revolvers, but she hasn't yet become proficient in semi-autos.

So, I'm now using a Taurus .44 Special revolver with hollowpoints for the bedside gun. I figure the ballistics are about as good as a .45 ACP with hardball, but the real question is whether the .44 Spl is any better or worse than a .38 in a wood-and-wallboard apartment.

If it weren't for the neighbors, I'd just as soon go with a .357.

Your thoughts?

- - - Yoda

 

[General Geoff]

Anything more potent than a .22 short will go through sheet rock and a wall stud, if you miss. This includes your .45ACP.

If you're concerned with overpenetration of your target, stick with a lighter bullet, preferably jacketed hollow point. This should minimize the chances of overpenetration.

 

[RaspberrySurprise]

Unless your using frangible rounds anything you shoot is going to go through wallboard even a .22LR. You should be most concerned about finding a round that will be least likely to perforate a person. A large heavy slow expanding round would probably be the best.

 

[Blacksmoke]

Ditto the above.
I would invest in a can of mace or a baseball bat or both. THe downside of firing inside that apartment building is "too bitter to contemplate."

 

[Deanimator]

Ditto the above.
I would invest in a can of mace or a baseball bat or both. THe downside of firing inside that apartment building is "too bitter to contemplate."

I was watching "Cold Case Files" on A&E yesterday. They were talking about a guy who used a bat to defend himself and his wife from a home invader. I think it took almost ten years, but they caught the guy who stabbed him to death, raped his wife repeatedly and set their house on fire. His widow says that she spends every day in hell.

But he never had to worry about shooting through a wall...

 

[Fozzy_Bear]

Frangible bullets are expensive. Why? - Because they are worth it.

Not all the time, but in your case, it's just the right tool for the job.

That, or Glaser blue-tip... but even blue-tip is going to be sketchy if there truly is only 2 5/8" layers of sheet-rock between you and your neighbors.

I say, spend a few bucks for a box this week, (have pasta instead of fish one night for dinner , if you have to) and get the peace-of-mind you need to take the shot (if, God forbid, you need to) without hesitation.

I wouldn't use a .44 without them in that situation... and to quote one of my favorite movies, " Any weapon you don't use is, by definition, a useless weapon."

just my 2 cents

 

[Harve Curry]

You could try some pure lead .430" round balls, or 160gr SWC. I know they make them that light for CAS.
A wide fat light wieght bullet shouldn't over penetrate as much.

 

[MaterDei]

I was watching "Cold Case Files" on A&E yesterday. They were talking about a guy who used a bat to defend himself and his wife from a home invader. I think it took almost ten years, but they caught the guy who stabbed him to death, raped his wife repeatedly and set their house on fire. His widow says that she spends every day in hell.

But he never had to worry about shooting through a wall...

Thanks, Deanimator for bringing this up. Pepper spray, bats, knifes, et al. are better than nothing but not the best self defense choice when a firearm is also an option.

 

[Deanimator]

Thanks, Deanimator for bringing this up. Pepper spray, bats, knifes, et al. are better than nothing but not the best self defense choice when a firearm is also an option.

Maybe I'm just funny, but I equate worrying more about missing an assailant than having the assailant murder me with worrying more about being killed in a "crossfire" when several people shoot a mass murderer than being EXECUTED on my knees BY the mass murderer.

As you imply, NONE of those things are nearly as easy to employ successfully as a firearm, especially by the handicapped and the elderly. The idea that my mother is going to more easily drive a 250lb. home invader away with a bat or pepper spray than a gun is simply contemptible.

 

[Hook686]

You might look at CCI Blazer Ammunition 44 Special 200 Grain Speer Gold Dot Jacketed Hollow Point.Pretty mild as I recall.

 

[Deanimator]

You might look at CCI Blazer Ammunition 44 Special 200 Grain Speer Gold Dot Jacketed Hollow Point.Pretty mild as I recall.

My primary home defense gun is a 4" S&W Model 29-2. I have both those and the Federal 200gr. LSWC-HP (a bigger version of their .38 Special "FBI" load) for my gun. Both are easily controllable, and nobody's going to thank you for giving them a couple of them center of mass. I've found the Blazers to be very accurate at 50' as well. I didn't have enough of the Federals to really see what they'd do in terms of accuracy, but at apartment distances, they're more than sufficient. If you do your part, they're all going to hit the target, and I guarantee you they'll hurt.

 

[Old Grump]

I live in a house

but studs are 2x4 and the drywall is the primary wall material. My 45, 44 mag, 41 mag, are locked up at the bedside is my 357 loaded with lead 38 spcl. When I think about it I will replenish my supply of wadcutters and replace the 158 gr bullets with them. At belly button range you will make an impression and I won't worry about shooting the length of the house into my families bedrooms. If I have time to get up the 357 gets replaced with a 20 gauge for the same reason, small light recoil, little muzzle flash and will make a permanent impression on a booger man. Not counting the fact that pumping a round into the chamber and seeing the size of the hole of a shotgun compared to a revolver has a wonderful intimidating factor which puts the balance of fear and power on my side of the court. Anything which will make an intruder want to leave my house is a good thing. I use bird shot for the same reason, I have no desire to spread pieces of bad guy all over my carpet I just want to make an impression and he doesn't know what I have in my gun. If I have to shoot he won't care what just made him bleed.

Get frangibles if you can, better yet get frangibles and a shotgun. By the way I think you said you have a 45, if you do the 45 semi-wad is even better than the 44 spcl for not over penetrating but personally my 45 is put up because a revolver is easier to operate if you have just been woken up by an intruder and your adrenalin is going through the roof.

 

[jjohnson]

Buy The Safety Slugs

Yep, they're expensive.

What, would you want one of the Sky Cops carrying FMJ or to pay two bucks a round for something designed to do its job? Yeah, I'd be a little concerned that you might miss a bad guy and accidentally hit a neighbor.

Shotguns, by the way, are great for settling disputes indoors...

I wouldn't go with a bat. You have to get too close to somebody who may have a firearm. Pepper spray isn't 100% effective and not all that fast, either. If you're not up to using a shotgun, by all means pay out the bucks for frangible or similar ammo that causes massive wounding because it doesn't over penetrate. Look at it this way - if you hit, you win, and ammo of that type do cause lots of trauma. If you miss, you win, because you didn't take out the neighbor two apartments away. If you never fire it, you win, because you will always sleep better.

 

[Aaryq]

Old Grump,
I would strongly suggest you take a look at the ballistics of birdshot before you try to touch one off and try to dispatch an unwelcome guest. The birdshot will cause a very ugly looking shallow wound cavity. It will probably just tick him off. Like someone once told me, only use birdshot if you're up against birds. They make buckshot and slugs for a reason.

As to the OP,
I'd say go with what you shoot best with. Whatever you're shooting will probably go thru a few walls.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

Get a shotgun loaded with #! shot.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

I would strongly suggest you take a look at the ballistics of birdshot before you try to touch one off and try to dispatch an unwelcome guest. The birdshot will cause a very ugly looking shallow wound cavity. It will probably just tick him off. Like someone once told me, only use birdshot if you're up against birds. They make buckshot and slugs for a reason.

Agreed. Even heaviest birdshot will not penetrate deeply enough. http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.

4 Inches penetration. Cover it with shift and heavy winter jacket and you could get <1" penetration.

If your home is invaded by birds use birshot.
If your home is invaded by animals (including human kind) use buckshot.

If you absolutely feel you MUST use birdshot (despite huge risk of non-vital first shot) I would load 1 shell of #6 or #4 birdshot followed by rest of capacity with #1 buck.

 

[machinisttx]

If you want to minimize the risk of overpenetration, you need to look at a .223 caliber carbine rather than a handgun. It's been thoroughly proven that HP, or other frangible style bullets in the .223 penetrate less in sheetrock and other building materials than HP handgun ammo.

If all you've got is a shotgun, stuff it with #4 or larger shot. At across the room distances, it's certainly not going to make them laugh. I've shot enough live animals up close with a shotgun to know that I can make do with one if it's all I've got. I've cut rabbits in half with a full choke 20 gauge a couple of times....

 

[Ctone03]

I've tested ammo on walls

I'm not done with the test so I can't post it yet, but the Magsafe rounds went through five walls with ease. 9mm handgun did the same thing, and the 12 gauge shotgun with 3" 00 buck is not much better. I agree that birdshot is not as lethal as some would lead you to believe, but turkey loads or coyote shot might do the trick. I would feel comfortable with #4 buck, but I can't say for certain unless I try.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If a cartridge has enough power to inflict a casualty on a human, it is more than sufficient to blow right through a typical apartment wall. You will need to A: use a hollowpoint or possibly a frangible bullet to minimize overpenetration; B: establish where your permissible "field(s) of fire" are so that if you do miss your target and penetrate a wall there will be no one on the other side; and C: don't miss your target in the first place. Then hope you can remember all this under stress.

 

[Deanimator]

If a cartridge has enough power to inflict a casualty on a human, it is more than sufficient to blow right through a typical apartment wall. You will need to A: use a hollowpoint or possibly a frangible bullet to minimize overpenetration; B: establish where your permissible "field(s) of fire" are so that if you do miss your target and penetrate a wall there will be no one on the other side; and C: don't miss your target in the first place. Then hope you can remember all this under stress.

If somebody's trying to kill me, ANYPLACE is a "permissible field of fire", unless it's so obviously irresponsible that commonsense would tell you not to shoot. But then I don't run a daycare center in my apartment, nor do I have any gasoline storage tanks to worry about hitting. But as you say, if you HIT what you shoot at, a through and through with a jacketed or dead soft lead hollowpoint isn't a possibility that's going to stand in the way of me defending my life.

 

[.cheese.]

.22lr will go through 4 sheets of drywall no problem.

I've seen it myself.

 

[gym]

Mag Safes, in all my home defense weapons, with a 3d round of jhp, in case of heavy clothes.

 

[g.willikers]

If you live in an apt on the top floor, or there is no floor above, there are techniques for shooting upward at an adversary, from a low stance, that could help.
Otherwise, it's best not to miss.

 

[JimmerJammerMrK]

The idea that my mother is going to more easily drive a 250lb. home invader away with a bat or pepper spray than a gun is simply contemptible.

No one said that, and I think you will be hard-pressed to find anyone who will say that.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm amazed that nobody has posted a link to the Box o' Truth

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm