.44 spl vs .44 mag / Lead vs FMJ Decisions

Status
Not open for further replies.
CodeSection

CodeSection

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2011
Messages
251
I am going to pick up my new SRH Alaskan .44 soon and I eventually plan on reloading that caliber once I secure some large pistol primers and gather additional items such as dies and other components. In the meantime, I plan on buying both practice/training loads and defensive Buffalo Bore 300r JFN rounds.

Initially, I was thinking of acquiring .44 specials to train with and would keep that brass to reload with. It was suggested on another thread that I consider just using .44 mag and then when I reload, just lower the charge. If I did use .44 mag brass with a lower charge, then CCI #300 primers would be ok, correct?

I have been reloading .38 specials, 9mm, .40 with a Dillon 550B and 30.06 individually for years. Everything, except the .38 special, uses a FMJ. My .38 spl uses DEWC that has a very, very low load so as not to cause leading in the barrel. While I have never had a leading problem, I have seen other people’s revolvers that had.

So, back to the .44. I’m afraid to buy anything with a lead cast bullet and a higher velocity. Though, I did find a Fiocche .44 spl 210gr LRNFP pushing 750fps. This seems low. Though, I’m not sure of the lead’s hardness. Does anyone know if it causes leading? Obviously, if I went this route, now I will have both .44 spl and .44 mag brass.

On the other hand, I can just buy .44 mag 240gr FMJ rounds and not mess with any lead cast or .44 spl brass. In the future when I will reload the .44, more than likely I would buy the 240gr JSP from Montana Gold Bullet.

Sorry for the long post. What are your thoughts or suggestions?
 
Ruger seems to like oversized cylinder throats for their 44s. The ones I've encountered have throat diameters at .434-.435" good luck with that shooting lead bullets.
I was eyeing a new GP 100 in 44 spl at a LGS the shop owner had a set of pin gauges, the throats were .434" and I passed on that gun.
 
CodeSection said:
just buy .44 mag 240gr FMJ rounds
Click to expand...
Or JSP/JHP, as long as the co$t is not an issue. . No cylinder throat issues or leading with jacketed.

44 mag brass can be loaded to special velocities with Alliants Unique powder & standard primers. The WLP primer will work for all powders.


Note that jacketed bullets come in 3 diffierent diameters. 429, 4295, 430. Last time i looked.

I shoot home cast lead.
 
CodeSection said:
If I did use .44 mag brass with a lower charge, then CCI #300 primers would be ok, correct?
Click to expand...

The use of magnum primers in a cartridge has nothing to do with the name of the cartridge and has everything to do with how difficult it is to ignite the powder.

Follow what your load data says for the primer to be used.

You will find with powders such as Unique, W231 and many others, data for the 44 Magnum almost certainly list a standard primer.

Powders such as W296 or H110 are more difficult to ignite and data will show a magnum primer.

Personally, I prefer to use cases in a handgun for what the chamber is machined for, 44 Magnum cases in a 44 Magnum gun, 357 Magnum in a 357 Magnum gun as opposed to using the shorter "Special" versions. That's just me and you can use 44 Special cases in your new 44 Magnum gun. Besides, I have guns chambered in the shorter cartridges so I save them for those guns.

I make it easy on myself and load jacketed bullets for full power rounds and cast bullets for light, plinking rounds. To get cast bullets to perform well at the higher velocities, it takes more care in bullet selection in both size and alloy to minimize or eliminate leading. Lots of folks shoot cast bullets at full power levels.

Enjoy your new gun.
 
joneb said:
Ruger seems to like oversized cylinder throats for their 44s. The ones I've encountered have throat diameters at .434-.435" good luck with that shooting lead bullets.
I was eyeing a new GP 100 in 44 spl at a LGS the shop owner had a set of pin gauges, the throats were .434" and I passed on that gun.
Click to expand...

Yes, and I've given up on shooting lead (even coated) from my super redhawk...too many problems with leading. I think that it could possibly be solved with a softer lead (or a different dia projectile) but with MCB's 18 hardness "44 elmer K" projectiles, I've shoved them from 900 fps all the way to just under 1600 and no matter what I do, I get leading.


OP:

You are 100% correct. I like my "house" loads which are 240g projectiles loaded to well under 1000 fps. I use CCI 300 primers (among others) and lower charges in magnum brass.

Once I really started getting into reloading, I pretty much moved on from 44 special. Magnum brass fits my magnum gun, so I can just download the charges. It's one of the awesome parts about reloading.
 
Pick a powder that fits the purpose... lighter loads would get something in the Unique range, as was suggested, heavier loads something a little slower... W296/H110, IMR4227, 2400, etc. As was also mentioned, the primer choice is based on the powder used, not the cartridge, per se.

Personally, I would just load up on .44MAG brass and call it a day, vs mix n matching with .44SPC brass.

As joneb mentions... Rugers are notorious for poorly sized cylinder throats, and for the dreaded 'torque bulge' in the barrel, from an overtorqued barrel. I had a .44SPC Flattop that had both, and was largely unusable. I had the cylinders reamed, which helped, but the bulge in the barrel swaged the bullets down... resulting in leading and poor accuracy. If you get poor accuracy out of the box, those are the likely culprits.
 
Charlie98 said:
Pick a powder that fits the purpose... lighter loads would get something in the Unique range, as was suggested, heavier loads something a little slower... W296/H110, IMR4227, 2400, etc. As was also mentioned, the primer choice is based on the powder used, not the cartridge, per se.
Click to expand...

My current "house" load is using Unique. With my supplies of it dwindling, I've been looking at different powders. I recently got my hands on a lb of VihtaVouri N350 and was pleased to find that using it in lower charges still produced a clean and accurate load.
 
The difference between the length of a 44 special and 44 magnum case is about the same as the difference between the crimp groove and the ogive on most bullets. Just deep seat bullets to crimp over the shoulder or on the ogive in 44 mag cases and use 44 special data-- the pressures and velocities will be very close, and no sweat in a magnum revolver. The deeper seating also gives a more consistent bullet pull, which increases accuracy. Nearly all of my "less than max" reloads use the deep seating method. It is also more economical, as about a grain less powder in the deep seated loads will give the same velocities.
 
Thanks for all the responses as you have given me very good items to research!

Charlie98 said:
Pick a powder that fits the purpose... lighter loads would get something in the Unique range, as was suggested, heavier loads something a little slower... W296/H110, IMR4227, 2400, etc......
Click to expand...

I agree. Since I have several pounds of AA#5, I was trying to find a load using it along with a 240gr bullet. I did find in the Western Powders Edition 5.0, a .44 Special load ~ 240gr JHC with 5.8-6.5gr AA#5. I could not find any load information using AA#5 in .44 mag.

To everyone: based upon my readings thus far, if one wants to use a .44 spl load in .44 mag brass, one would either use the same charge and seat the bullet slightly deeper OR increase the .44 spl maximum load charge. My initial readings indicated that the increase in charge could range from .5-1.0 grains. Further reading in another forum indicated the increase would be 6.96%. That calculation was based upon the cases' volume differences and when the loads were chronographed, they appeared to match velocities.

So, is the 6.96% a good "measurement standard" to go by if I used a .44 spl load in .44 mag brass?
 
I have reloaded the 44 Magnum with everything from 123 gr. balls to 310 gr. ingots, from gallery loads to T-Rex Killers (and a lot of 44 Special loads in 44 Magnum brass.) starting in '88. All my 44s' primers are chosen for the powder used; standard primers for everything from Bullseye to 2400 and Magnum primers for WC820, 4227 and H110/W296. Never used any "formula" for Special data in Magnum brass, just realized velocities would be lower than listed (and every load I used began with book starting loads. No stuck bullets either.). Actually you can load Special up to mid-upper Magnum pressures with no problems, BTDT in my Magnum guns. Ninety eight percent plus of my handloads were cast bullets with 2 1/2 boatloads of 429421 cast from WW. My most successful loads were with 240 gr 429421 of WW alloy and Ranch Dog's 240 and 260 gr RNFP which worked quite well in my revolvers, Contender and Puma...
 
Last edited:
The majority of my 44 loads are mild to mid level with 8-10 grains of Unique under a 240gn projectile (coated, plated and jacketed) in magnum brass.

Using only magnum brass simplifies things for me since the dies can remain set for the longer brass and there's no back and forth.

As others have said, standard primers are fine unless you're using a hard to ignite ball powder such as w296 or h110.
 
Last edited:
forrest r said:
I would do a bunch of testing if I were you. That short bbl is going to surprise you especially with +/- 300gr bullets.

Here are links to a couple different reloading manuals put out by accurate arms that has data for the 44spl and the 44mag using AA#5 along with other aa powders.
1992 edition
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Accurate/Accurate_1992.pdf
2003 edition
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Accurate/Accurate_1992.pdf
Click to expand...

I hope to shoot 240gr for practice/training and yes, a Buffalo Bore bear load 300gr JFN (which I just ordered today).

Thanks for the 1992 Accurate pdf. I did notice a considerable difference from the Accurate 1992 .44 spl 240gr AA#5 8.5-9.4gr vs Western Powders Edition 8.0 .44 spl 240gr AA#5 5.8-6.5gr. Yes, testing starting with the most recent data loads is a good practice!
 
One thing I'll point out that I haven't seen mentioned here yet--when you say "lead bullets" you're really covering a lot of ground. From dead soft, pure lead swaged bullets like what Speer and others sell, all the way up to the ultra-hard cast bullets from Lasercast and others.

If you try and take a pure lead bullet and try to push it at magnum velocity, you'll get a leading nightmare. On the other hand, if you take a super hard cast bullet, especially one that's undersized, and load it up for bullseye shooting at 700-800 fps, you'll likely end up with a good amount of leading as well.

That said, if you limit your "lead" shooting to cast bullets, and make sure they're properly sized, most likely you can push them to jacketed velocities very easily and never see any leading. I know there are those here with far more experience than mine, but with about 25 years loading and shooting cast bullets out of 10+ revolvers, 4 semi auto handguns, and at least 8 rifles, I have never had any significant leading in any of my weapons. Most of my handguns have fired a diet of at least 95% cast bullet loads, and some have never seen a jacketed bullet. With two of my 1903 Springfield rifles, I've had cast bullets at over 2300+ fps giving me decent 100 yd groups, and leaving a shiney bore.
 
CodeSection said:
I hope to shoot 240gr for practice/training and yes, a Buffalo Bore bear load 300gr JFN (which I just ordered today).

Thanks for the 1992 Accurate pdf. I did notice a considerable difference from the Accurate 1992 .44 spl 240gr AA#5 8.5-9.4gr vs Western Powders Edition 8.0 .44 spl 240gr AA#5 5.8-6.5gr. Yes, testing starting with the most recent data loads is a good practice!
Click to expand...


Sorry, just edited my post & put in the 2003 link that was supposed to be there
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Accurate/Accurate_2003.pdf

I like to have at least 2 different places to get data & these accurate manuals are 10 years apart.

A link to the hornady 4th edition manual that you can download for free it has AA#5, 7 & 9 data for the 44spl & mag. You can use the data outright or use it to cross reference data. Keep in mind that their lead bullet data is low because they are using their soft lead swaged bullets, not hard cast.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Man...tridge Reloading - 4th Edition - Volume 1.pdf

While you're looking/downloading might as well download the speer #12 manual, it has limited AA powder data for the 44spl/mag also
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Man... Reloading Manual - 12th Edition - 1995 -.pdf

The lyman 48th edition reloading manual, again limited data for the AA powders but it never hurts to have another free manual.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Man...ding Handbook - 48th Edition - 2002 - ocr.pdf

You will see that these manuals are from the same era. This is because the AA powders were the latest greatest thing during the 1990's/early 2000's. Putting old powders in "new" reloading manuals doesn't do well for sales so all the mfg's use the new powders that come out to sell there manuals.

Good luck & post some results, not a lot of people use short bbl'd 44mags.
 
I shoot gobs of cast and coated .430 bullets in .44 Spl and magnum in both .44 Spl. and .44 Mag. handguns... and one 16” rifle.

As the guys said, tailor your load to the gun and the intended velocity and you’ll be ok.

For fun loads with a lot of plinkability, I like the 185 gr coated TCFP from Missouri Bullet Co and the 200 gr coated RNFP from Eggleston Bullets. Loaded in Spl. brass with between 7.2 and 7.5 gr Unique, they have just enough oomph to let you know you’re firing a big bore revolver without beating up the gun or the shooter. (Find the powder dose that shoots best in your gun(s).)

47ED2B8E-AAF4-4ADB-8AF7-40787818F48B.jpeg

Stay safe.
 
forrest r said:
Sorry, just edited my post & put in the 2003 link that was supposed to be there
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Accurate/Accurate_2003.pdf

I like to have at least 2 different places to get data & these accurate manuals are 10 years apart.

A link to the hornady 4th edition manual that you can download for free it has AA#5, 7 & 9 data for the 44spl & mag. You can use the data outright or use it to cross reference data. Keep in mind that their lead bullet data is low because they are using their soft lead swaged bullets, not hard cast.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading - 4th Edition - Volume 1.pdf

While you're looking/downloading might as well download the speer #12 manual, it has limited AA powder data for the 44spl/mag also
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Speer Reloading Manual - 12th Edition - 1995 -.pdf

The lyman 48th edition reloading manual, again limited data for the AA powders but it never hurts to have another free manual.
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Lyman Reloading Handbook - 48th Edition - 2002 - ocr.pdf

You will see that these manuals are from the same era. This is because the AA powders were the latest greatest thing during the 1990's/early 2000's. Putting old powders in "new" reloading manuals doesn't do well for sales so all the mfg's use the new powders that come out to sell there manuals.

Good luck & post some results, not a lot of people use short bbl'd 44mags.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the additional pdf links! They have given me more information that supports each other when comparing 240gr and using AA#5. While I have the hardcover of the Speer #12 manual, it sure is nice to now have a pdf of it as well! No more taking it to work with me....

Again, thank you for the time and effort you put in to provide me with those links!
 
CodeSection said:
Thank you so much for the additional pdf links! They have given me more information that supports each other when comparing 240gr and using AA#5. While I have the hardcover of the Speer #12 manual, it sure is nice to now have a pdf of it as well! No more taking it to work with me....

Again, thank you for the time and effort you put in to provide me with those links!
Click to expand...

Were all here to learn and help each other, I'm hoping you'll post some results. I've done a bunch of testing with 2" & 2 1/2" 44spl bbl's and the shortest 44mag bbl on any firearm I've owned is 4" (2 of them). It would be interesting to see what your 3" bbl'd ruger does with different loads.
 
To everyone, thank you for taking the time to educate me on the cast and coated bullets! I truly appreciate it!

I went through my inventory of components and found a box of PPC #2 from Missouri Bullet Company that I plan on using with 38 spl light loads when I reload tomorrow. I will then focus on reloading 9mm and .40s since I am low and will probably use up my plinking round count on those calibers when I go to the range today. Again, I have plenty of components in those calibers.

As for the .44 mag, thanks to the additional information provided here, I believe I have a starting load for a 240gr using AA#5. I have plenty of powder. I have sources for the .44 dies, shell plate, brass, bullets, but no large pistol primers.

Well, there ARE listings on Gun Broker for large pistol primers but I have no desire to pay anywhere from $200-$265 per brick. I'm patient and can wait for when shipments start making it to the retail stores and prices start falling. I've read various articles about the combination of increased sales and hoarding from individuals along with very large purchase orders from the government that has caused the primer shortage. I believe eventually it will normalize.

In the meantime, I am scowering forums, estate sales, Craigslist in my area, and the internet daily. Who knows, I may even come across someone local that has large pistol primers and needs small pistol primers and wants to trade. So, without the large pistol primers, I will not be ordering the other currently available components.

Again, thank you everyone for posting and trying to help!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Old Grumpy
  • Locked
.44 mag in a Rifle
Replies
10
Views
1K
buck460XVR
buck460XVR
J
  • Locked
44 mag vs 44 spl classic lee loaders
Replies
5
Views
3K
Jamesmb
J
joneb
  • Locked
Trimming .44 mag. brass to .44 spl ?
Replies
11
Views
3K
joneb
joneb
D
  • Locked
44 Spl/Mag
Replies
7
Views
709
GaryL
GaryL
Q
  • Locked
44 spec vs 44 mag brass
Replies
11
Views
1K
bender
B
Back
Top