45-70 cast slug loads for Marlin?

[Marlin 45 carbine]

the micro-groove rifleing. I'm on 'cast boolits' site and some good info there but wondering if any member(s) may have a good 'cowboy' cast slug practice load.
I've tryed cast slugs in my Marlin Camp 9 and .45 (micro-groove bores) with not too good results the .45acp doing better of the 2 - from what I've read I'll need an oversize slug to get any decent accuracy according to what I've read for Marlin 30-30 and .444 and 45-70 cast slug shooters. I'm new to both 30-30 and 45-70 (a nephews' inherited rifles actually, not mine so I'm trying to gather some info to get loads that do well for his handloading efforts later on)

 

[moooose102]

i am kind of new to this rifle cast bullet thing myself. i have actually only loaded up two sets of 45-70 cast loads, so i do not have a favorite yet. i am useing IMR SR-4759 powder for my cast loads, and i do remember seeing that powder listed in a cowboy load somewhere. anyway, my guide gun does not have the micro groove barrel, but, i did buy an larger than normal mold. i tried shooting a lee 350g flat nose, but that mold was funky, it was casting out of round, so i sent it back to lee. i bought another lee mold that casts .460" 350g flat nose gas checks. these seem to shoot much better, with no barrel leading. but like i said, only one load so far. i did shoot those without gas checks. it was a pretty mild load, 25g of the IMR powder. i used lee liquid alox for lube. i have loaded up some hotter, with gas checks, but i have not had a chance to shoot them yet.

 

[Asherdan]

I would slug the barrel you're loading for as a first step. I slugged my 1895G ballard rifled barrel and came out almost dead on .458. With that info I've gone with cast bullets at .459 or .460 and had no issues with plain based bullets over a wide velocity spread. When slugging, see if the barrel has constriction points, the dovetail and stamping points are common issue areas, if there are, you may consider lapping the barrel.

You can worry about barrel lapping later, if necessary, though. First would be to see what size you need to cast to or purchase at for a good barrel fit.

What weight bullets are you interested in?

For fun loads/range plinkers I have used 300 and 350g cast. I've used Greg Mushials fly slow data with very good success using Unique and 2400.

I'm just starting to work up XMP-5744 for cast on other shooters high recommendation. I've attached Accurate's data sheets that I'm working from.

 

[highlander 5]

You might be able to find a copy of a book on shooting cast bullets by Veral Smith of LBT fame. According to his website he's had very good luck shooting his cast bullets out of Marlin's with microgroove rifle.

 

[243winxb]

A bullet with a gas check might work better in a micro-groove rifled barrel. I know my 44 mag didn't like plain base bullets.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

thanks for the tips so far. I googled 'veral smith' so see there's some pages concerning.
I've loaded 100's&100's of Dillon's cast slugs for my S&W 625 and Colt 1911 with good results but the 45-70 is a different animule altogether.
I've read some about useing Unique and cast slugs for 'plinking' which seems to be the way to go.
and thanks to 'asherdan' for the references.

 

[GooseGestapo]

For a good, cheap bullet and loads for your Marlin, try this...

Either of the Lee moulds for the 340gr, 405 hollow base, or 405 flat-nose, or hollow point version of the latter.... I have all three (my 405grFN is a single cavity hollow point The most accurate though is the 405gr Hollow Base.)

Cast the bullets out of wheel-weights. Air cooled is fine for most .45/70 use.

Lube the bullets by hand. Think of "coloring the bullets with a crayon" filling the lube grooves. Then, roll the bullets on some wax paper to press the lube into the grooves, then wipe off the excess from the nose and base of the bullets. (think wiping a kids nose with a tissue....). The bullets will do well unsized for the M.G. barrels.

Load a near full case of "Trail Boss". I measure/weigh my charges, but the Lee dippers work real well in this application. Velocity is a little under the factory and original B.P. loads, but not enough to be a factor.

The bullets as cast will shoot better through the MicroGroove barrel than those sized to .459" or smaller. My first Marlin M1895 had the M.G. barrel, but it shot really well with bullets sized to .459". It did prefer the loads a little on the warm side so that the bullets obturated to the bore. My current M1895GG, has a .458" w/Ballard rifling, so I size and lube to .459". I get near MOA at 100yds with a RCBS .458-300FNGC over 45.0gr of H4198, w/dacron filler and gets ~1,870fps. Will do anything you need a .45/70 for short of stopping a Kodiac bear charge... and maybe even that, but for that I'd use the 405HB heat-treated to 27bhn, over 55.0gr of IMR4064. This too, gets 1,850fps and is near MOA, but is over-the-top for anything in the lower 48.......Recoil is fierce, worse than my .300RUM w/180gr bullet @ 3,400fps....

I've not ever used Unique in the .45/70, though I have used Blue Dot,#2400 IMR4198, RL7, RL15, Varget, IMR4064 and SR4759, as well as TrailBoss.

For your uses, either the Trail Boss, Blue Dot, and #2400 will work well. Unique can do well too, but with the pistol powders, be REALLY, REALLY careful to avoid a double charge. It will ruin your rifle, and your day.

No need to "hot-rod" the .45/70. It'll kill anything in N.America with the original B.P. loads. If you need a "Magnum" long range rifle buy one. However, within 100-150yds, the .45/70 and a 300-405gr bullet at 1,100-1,400fps will "get 'er done". No need for any "fancy" castin or loading equipment or buy the expensive cast bullets. Make your own. You'll really enjoy it. Just take the time to learn what NOT to do.

The only other thing you might consider is to use some "dacron pillow stuffing" to fill the cases with the "pistol" powders to improve ignition/accuracy.

Have fun and be careful.....

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

thanks for the tips and tricks

thanks for the good write-up Goose.
I'm going to print out most of this thread for later reference.
my main interest is going to be the 'plinking loads' but haveing some power load info for cast slugs is good in light of prices for the .458 jacketed slugs eek