45-70 Government Cartridges

[Steel Horse Rider]

Last weekend I was finally able to get out to the range with my newly acquired Springfield 1873 Carbine. I didn't have any brass so I bought a box of Remington 45-70 cartridges and converted them to empty brass.... I was very happy with the results once I figured out the proper sight picture, on this one you needed to have the entire front blade above the notch to hit a target at 50 yards. It certainly does a number on a water filled milk jug and is fun to shoot. With the proper cartridge holder you can fire pretty quickly but the barrel does heat up pretty fast in rapid fire mode.

I worked the empty brass through the press this week and loaded ten of them with 26 grains of Accurate 5744 and paper towel wadding and ten of them with 70 grains of Goex 2F black powder. Hopefully I can get to the range next weekend and see what the difference is, other than being able to see immediately after the shot!

 

[Panzerschwein]

That is awesome, LOVE me some trapdoors!!

 

[bannockburn]

Steel Horse Rider

Sounds great, especially the black powder loads. Photos please when you get a chance.

 

[loose noose]

Steel Horse Rider, Sounds to me that you're ready to get a copy of "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J.S. and Pat Wolf. I've had that book for over 20 years and used it extensively over those years using it for my Springfield Trapdoor rifle. I tried using smokeless powder loads to no avail, in the accuracy department much beyond 50 yards. However after getting that book, I began loading mil spec ammo using 70grns.of Goex 3f, black powder, slightly opening up the primer pocket, using a Federal magnum rifle primer, a 405 grain hand cast bullet with relatively soft lead (don't remember the amount of tin added to pure lead). All the pertinent facts are in there book though. To make a long story short, I can now consistently hit a steel buffalo out to 500 yards rather consistently (6/10) with that rifle using shooting sticks. I know there other Springfield shooters out there that can best even that. If nothing else the book is well worth reading.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

In a carbine that 70 grain load will get your attention. From what I have read the cavalry carbine load was lowered to 55gr powder and a 405gr hollow base bullet.

 

[mr wack]

This is the book Loose noose referred to,,
Great book for the Trapdoor owner and shooter.
A must have in my opinion .. .

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[J-Bar]

Prediction: you are gonna wind up loading more black powder cartridges than smokeless. Let me know if I'm right or wrong.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I used a .405 grain flat nose cast bullet. You would need some filler to put 55 grains of bp and not have the dreaded air pockets. Looks like I m going to be ordering more books as that one looks to be a gold mine of information! Thanks for the heads up. I will try to get some pictures the next time I go shooting, I assume you weren't speaking of photos of the cartridges as the BP and smokeless appear the same......

 

[bannockburn]

Steel Horse Rider

I will try to get some pictures the next time I go shooting, I assume you weren't speaking of photos of the cartridges as the BP and smokeless appear the same......

You are correct sir! Would love to see photos of your Springfield Model 1873 Carbine in action!

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I used a .405 grain flat nose cast bullet. You would need some filler to put 55 grains of bp and not have the dreaded air pockets.

I use a cardboard card wad as filler .

 

[loose noose]

Felt works also very well as a filler, for the reduced load.

 

[58limited]

If you want some accurate out of the box factory ammo, try Black Hill's .45-70. It is Cowboy Action ammo and in my Shiloh Sharps can get MOA groups or smaller (I know you have a Springfield but I bet it shoots just as well for you too). It has a 405 grain flat nose lead bullet and Star Line brass.

I bought several boxes of Black Hills and now use the brass in my hand loads. I keep one box of Black Hills on hand for hunting in case I don't have any handloads available.

 

[loose noose]

58limited, there is a world of difference between the Sharps and the Springfield trapdoor. First of all the lands and grooves are different, one has 3, the Springfield, and the other has 5 or 6. I also have both and noted that the Sharps is not as particular as the Springfield, The Springfield definitely has to have a hollow based 405 grain projectile in order to get the best accuracy. I believe the projectile with the proper charge of black powder will fill out to the lands and grooves of the barrel and therefore be that much more accurate. The lands and grooves of the Sharps, are much more tighter also, .458 where the Springfield is anywhere from .460 to .462. That is why I hand cast for both of these rifles, and get excellent accuracy out of both.

 

[58limited]

I know the rifles are very different (the Springfield was never intended to be the precision made rifle that Sharps was). I was intending to give the OP an alternative to the Remington factory ammo he mentioned in the first post in case he wants to try more factory ammo, one with a lead bullet instead of a copper jacketed bullet to avoid copper fouling.

I hand cast and load for my Sharps and agree that accuracy can be better for the reasons you mentioned.