45-70 Gov't reloading ques.

[ilmonster]

Question on reloading the 45-70 cartridge for my new Marlin 1895, my first rifle cartridge I’ll be reloading for (I have a Dillon SDB for all my pistol cartridges and MEC 9000 for shotgunning).

Just picked up the rifle a few weeks ago, and shot some Rem. 405 JSP rounds through it. In the next week or so I’ll be picking up a Lee Classic Cast press and all the other items needed to reload this round. My questions relates to the fact this is a straight walled case vs. a bottleneck case.

I measured the case length of some of the fired Remington 45-70 cases and they were well within the max case length spec in my Lyman manual. In fact, they really didn’t lengthen much as compared to the unfired rounds. In general, do straight walled rifle cases expand like bottleneck cases such as the .223 rounds I shoot through my Rem. 700 SPS Tac (which I’ve also measured, and indeed they do lengthen after firing)? Are 45-70 cases similar to straight walled pistol cases?

Also, since the case mouth is expanded during the reloading process, does one need to chamfer the case mouth similar to bottleneck cases? I’ll be reloading some 300 LFP bullets at powderpuff velocities (900 – 1200 fps) for punching paper. Thanks!

 

[cpt-t]

ilmonster: My Son and I have and shoot 3 Marlin 1895 45-70`s and several other rifles in 45-70. It is one of our favorite rounds that we shoot and reload for. We have been reloading for our 45-70`s for many years now. The load We use 95% of the time for every thing is 35grs of IMR3031 with a 405gr Hard Cast LRNFP bullet. We are getting between 1250fps and 1350fps we are told, we do not have a chrony. This type of Bullet just feeds better than any of the others we have tried. This load is very comfortable to shoot and very accurate for us. And this load has given us full peneration on any of the Pigs or Deer we have shot with it. I can not
remember ever having to trim or chamfer any of our cases while reloading any of our 45-70`s, 444 Marlins, or 450 Marlins. The 45-70 is very easy to reload for and we do not bell our cases any more than we have to. We reload for all our 45-70`s, 444 Marlin`s, and 450 Marlins on a RCBS single stage press and it works just fine.
ken

 

[snuffy]

ilmonster, The 45/70 loads just like a straight case revolver round. Because it has the expander as part of the second die, it also bells the mouth. OR the expander can be backed off so to not bell, then you'd need to chamfer the mouth. I doubt you could load lead boolits with just a chamfer though. You'd need some belling as most lead boolits are, (should be), slightly bigger so they require belling.

Because you put a bell on the mouth, AND because it will be fired in a lever gun, you need to crimp the boolits. Just enough to cancel the chamfer and turn the mouth of the case into the crimp groove.

Take a sized case before you bell it, install die #3 in the press. Run the case all the way to the top, screw the die down until you feel the crimping ring inside the die contact the case mouth. About ¼ to ½ turn further down should show you the case getting crimped. Set the die lock ring now, so you can return to the same spot when you begin seating/crimping.

Now go through the process of expanding/belling, charging powder to the point of seating a boolit. Back the seating stem on top of the die out, then carefully try to seat a boolit,(don't go all the way to the top, just a bit short). It should be too long, now turn the seating stem down until you're just below the crimp groove, then do a complete stroke. It should finish seating and crimp into the groove.

 

[dh1633pm]

snuffy, that is how I do it. Excellent explanation. I load of lot of 300 grain RNFP bullets with AA5744. Slower speed and good accuracy in an 1895G.

 

[Jlr2267]

If you have reloaded for a magnum revolver before, it's the same basic process. A firm crimp is necessary. I found Alliant Reloder 7 and IMR 3031 to give excellent results with the 405gr bullet.

 

[Richard Head]

IMR 3031 is an excellent choice for the 45-70. I use just a little bit more powder with the 405 grain bullets than you do and get excellent accuracy out of my GBL.

 

[ilmonster]

Thanks for the replies. From what everyone describes, it's like reloading .38 Spcl rounds for my Marlin 1894, or .44 Spcl for my Ruger SuperBlackhawk, both of which get a roll crimp. The only thing I'll do differently is lubing the cases before resizing as the dies for 45-70 are not carbide. Probably going with the RCBS Cowboy 3 die set.

 

[ilmonster]

Well, received my Lee Classic Cast press, RCBS Cowboy dies and Uniflow powder measure and got them all set up over the holiday. After setting up my dies including the expander die, I got down to reloading a few rounds yesterday. Lubed cases before resizing. Expander die negated the need for chamfering case mouths. Reloaded 5 rounds using 15.0 grains of HS-6 for around 1,175 fps with Missouri Bullet 300 gr. RNFP bullets. They came off the dies looking like factory rounds!

Then went to the range yesterday afternoon (they just built a new indoor range 2 miles from my house! Lucky me ) and tried them out. These shot really well. Gun cycled great. Less recoil than the factory 405 gr. Remington JSP's, and as accurate as I could shoot offhand at 20 yards. Now time to reload another 25 and take them to the range in the next week or so and see what the real accuracy is from a bench.

Also in the interim, I removed the solid rubber butt pad from the 1895 and did a grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad. That made a huge difference in the factory Remington rounds. Much more comfortable to shoot! With the 300 gr. MBC rounds, could have shot them all day comfortably.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[Wis-Harpo]

45-70

I use 50 grains of IMR 4198 under the Hornady 350 RN or 325 FTX, and have to trim my brass almost after each resizing. This load is in the Hodgdon website, and in my old reloading books. They are NOT intended for the lever gun that you have, even though it is your MAXIMUM load. I realize that the chamber pressure is more than the lighter loads you are loading. This load is intended for "modern rifles" such as the Ruger single shot, Browning single shot, (or the rifle I had made) the Siamese Mauser . I intend to back off on the powder, because at 67 years old the kick is getting a little punishing. I have been reloading the same load since 1984, and been trimming the cases since 1984. So just check your case length and trim as needed. I just got 50 new star line brass at a Gun Show last Saturday, and I am going to reduce the loading in these new cases. I do not know how many times the ones I have now have been reloaded and trimmed. I will keep better track with these cases.

 

[ilmonster]

Wis-Harpo, I will be measuring the now once fired cases from last weekend to see if they've lengthened. It'll be interesting if my mouse-fart loads at one end of the pressure spectrum lengthen as compared to your more bear oriented loads at the other end of the pressure spectrum. If they're longer than 2.1", it's trim time. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[PapaG]

Measure case length after sizing as that will tend to lengthen the cases. I rarely had to trim my 45-70 or 444 Marlin cases.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Since you already got your answer on the straight walled case I'll talk about powders. I'm a huge fan of AA5744 in the 45-70. I have used Trail Boss, Unique, 2400, 4198, 3031 and probably a few others but I have the most success with AA5744. This is for both jacketed bullets and lead bullets in 3 different rifles including a levergun and a Trapdoor.