45-70 Loads with 3031

[sgoeing]

I am looking for some 45-70 load data for my 1895. I am using Sierra's 300 grain HP. The Sierra manual has a range from 56.1 to 60 grains of IMR-3031. According to other manuals this seems to be a little on the hot side. I just wanted to double check with others and make sure it was ok.

Other load suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Michael Goeing

 

[Edward429451]

I've only loaded 45/70's one time so far, so little experiance but since no replies I'll give you the data that's in my manuals...


Lymans 47th
For Marlin rifles.
Hornady short jacket 300gr
IMR-3031
43.0 to 50.0 gr

Professinal Loading (1970 Ed.) George Herter
Unspecified rifles
300 gr jacketed
IMR-3031
43.0 to 47.0 gr

The other manuals I have do not give info for 300g bullets with 3031
The sierra manual you took your data from is probably intended for the Ruger #1 & #3 rifles, which would be too hot for your Marlin.

 

[sgoeing]

I have the lyman manual also and that is why I wanted to double check what is given in the Sierra manual.

 

[elkhunter]

Not much experience on this end either, but I loaded the 3031 loads for the 350 gr Hornady's from this page.
www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm
It was the exact same load as the max load from the Hornady manual by the way.

 

[JSR]

I just looked at the Sierra manual and thought that was a misprint. It shows the marlin 1895 in the "Class 3 loads" along with the Ruger #1s and 3s and the Siamese Mauser. Loads were tested with an 1895. After cross referencing, I can see that their class 3 loads are for the most part lighter than the class 2 lever action loads in Hodgdons #27. It shows H4198 Max at 54.3 grs and Hodgdons lever action loads show max at 60 grs 40000 CUP. I wonder why they did it that way? Besides being kind of useless for some one with a Ruger or BA, IMO it could confuse the issue for a new reloader who might assume that the Marlin should always be loaded to Class 3 levels. I'd imagine that the Sierra max is OK,but I'd work up carefully. IMR shows it at 55.2 grs for the 300 Gr Sierra. and Hornady shows 56.9 grs for their 300 gr bullet.
Jeff

 

[JStordahl]

Much depends on the brass. Some brands have greater capacity and will show no pressure signs with an increased charge. Always start a bit low and work up to satisfactory accuracy levels......and if you have a chronograph, that will give you the data you need to determine correct velocity.

Example: When working up loads for a 7 Mag, I achieved the 2950 fps target velocity with one grain less powder using Federal brass versus Winchester. Good luck....be safe.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Sgoeing, a quick search for “Marlin†and my name yielded some threads which address what you asked. I recalled much of this same discussion. You might want to read these three, especially the third one.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22199&highlight=Marlin
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26167&highlight=Marlin
contains discussion of the three to four different loading levels for the .45-70 ctg.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27596&highlight=Marlin
more or less a compendium of the first two threads mentioned.

JSP, as to your comment,

Besides being kind of useless for some one with a Ruger or BA, IMO it could confuse the issue for a new reloader who might assume that the Marlin should always be loaded to Class 3 levels.

I think no more so than having sections in loading manuals for the .45 Colt ctg which are ONLY to be used in Ruger sixguns and in heavy single shot pistols. Some of these published loads will definitely overstrain the Colt Peacemaker and clones thereof.

I have yet to see a manual which advises, Go immediately to the top-end loads and begin stuffing hulls. Don’t bother actually READING any of the text and cautionary notes. Quite the opposite, in fact. All the manual writers and editors want everyone to do a lot of reading before using any of their published data. They are pretty insistent about it, really.

It is anticipated that anyone who is interested and bright enough to realize the benefits of handloading is smart enough to utilize some restraint. There’s nothing wrong about giving loads which are okay in some guns but not in others.

Best of luck - -
Johnny

 

[s64woody]

There does not appear to be any difference between the .450 Marlin rifle and a 45/70 rifle. Both are strong, allowing fairly enthusiastic handloads in either. I found that the 45/70 guide gun would happily accept loads that my body would not.
Most of my reloads were with 4895, 3031 would work well. The straight wall case does not allow the 4895 to work in an optimal fashion, but it does allow a safety margin, tho it is somewhat dirty. 3031 would lower the loading density, and probably generate more velocity, but would allow for a fairly nasty surprise if you are not paying attention....
Best bet is to do the classic load development with published loads.

 

[JSR]

I have yet to see a manual which advises, Go immediately to the top-end loads and begin stuffing hulls. Don’t bother actually READING any of the text and cautionary notes. Quite the opposite, in fact. All the manual writers and editors want everyone to do a lot of reading before using any of their published data. They are pretty insistent about it, really.

It is anticipated that anyone who is interested and bright enough to realize the benefits of handloading is smart enough to utilize some restraint. There’s nothing wrong about giving loads which are okay in some guns but not in others.

Well actually my point was that that much longer than I'v been handloading for the 45/70 there have been seperate load classes for the replicas,trapdoors,etc class 1, modern lever actions Class 2 and the class 3 bolt actions,and modern single shots. The classes are predicated on the CUPs to which the cartridge can be loaded to for that action,28000 for class 1,40000 class 2 and 50000 class 3. This is why again, IMO remember , it makes absolutly no sense to me to lighten up the class 3 loads and duplex the 2 in one class.It wasn't broke,why fix it?
And I certainly agree, in a perfect world,we would hope that everybody would read the directions,look at the map,and generally do their homework....BUT! I'v only been hanging out on these forums for 3-4 yrs ,I'm sure as a moderator,you'v seen,heard of, or read of many more than I have that didn't? People do dumb things,make mistakes,thru simple lack of knowledge or misunderstanding. Happily I'v caught mine, at least the ones that may have left a mark anyway. It happens.
Jeff