.45 Acp ammo

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Iansstud

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I went down to the local gun shop the other day looking for some 9mm jhp and 45 jhp for my ccw's....

The man at the counter told me that the 9mm needed them, and was a waist of $$$ and they are pointless in a 45acp, he said the hole left In the guy would be almost as big as the 9mm jhp when it blooms out.

Now I can see that as a valid point, is this true or would JHP benifit my stopping power??


I carry a usp compact 45 as my daily ccw, if I need something smaller I'll switch for the g26 with 12 black talons.
 
First: if an expanded 9mm makes an equivalent size hole to a .45, why not make a bigger hole with an expanding .45? Second: a fmj .45 is far more likely to exit the BG and possibly harm a bystander. Two good reasons, I'd say.

Chuck
 
New York City police used FMJ 9mm for years and only recently changed to JHP's, because of this we have the opportunity to see how well FMJ ammo works in police situations. Using data as collected by Marshall and Sanow the statistical results show that the 9mm and the .45 acp are pretty close to equal in the effectiveness of FMJ ammo (the 9mm actually leads).

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18

All in all, stats aside, the jhp's are more effective in either caliber so why go with less effective ammo?
 
so why go with less effective ammo?
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I went to the mother of all gun stores around here "Kesellrings", and they sold the last box of 45JHP to the customer befor me... Nuts!

I Think All in All, It comes down to shot placement, however, If I had a choice, I think I will now go for the JHP...

Thanks Guys!!!

P.S. I Love It when People provide Actual Data, or Real Facts to prove points!!! thanks
 
there's not a real huge difference in penetration betweek fmj 45 and jhp bullet. but a good jhp, like the 230 grn HST from federal offers a good amount more stopping power than the fmj
 
I emptied 8 FMJ rounds from my 1911 into a milk jug full of water and it punched pretty little holes in it and let the water spill out.

Then I filled another milk jug and shot it with the 230grn hydroshok and it exploded.

I carry 230grn hydroshoks in my CC 1911.
 
I dropped the hydrashoks for 230 gr HSTs.

The guy behind the counter should learn the difference between fact and opinion. There is no downside to using premium JHPs in a .45. There MAY be a downside to NOT carrying them.

Black Talons are hype, don't bother. (Not just MY opinion. :)
 
I spent over $150 on various brands of JHP's figuring out which JHP shot most accurately in my 45. Accuracy and shot placement work together, and frankly I would much rather have accuracy over expansion if I had to pick. But yeah I like a huge thump full of stopping power to, so I get both.:D(Golden Sabers 230 gr. +P = 1.5 in group at 25 yards.)

What to remember......
A properly placed .22 LR can easily be more effective than a improperly placed 44 Mag.

Most quality JHP's are +P and most FMJ's aren't. I could be wrong but I think that is what makes the penetration stay close to the same.

Black Talons are hype, don't bother. (Not just MY opinion.
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I agree.
 
Both will get the job done, but as others have said shot placement means everything. Like the reference of a hit by a .22 is better than a miss by a 500 S&W. As well as, the popular quote: "A 9mm may expand, but a 45 will never shrink." Don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be shot by either in FMJ or JHP. For personal defense I don't think many would debate that JHP's are the best for stopping the threat, as well as slowing the bullet and helping prevent against it passing through and hitting another. At first, I liked 9mm and dimissed the .45 after shooting a .40 S&W as I thought the recoil would be even worse. After shooting a M&P 45, I now have a hankering for a 45. This is only preference on what I feel comfortable shooting, and not discrediting the .40 S&W.
 
Just to throw a new twist into the 9 vs. 45 argument...

Immediate stops are created by central nervous system hits or shock.

An HP does not add to the CNS damage or the induction of shock. It may cause more rapid blood loss, but even bleeding out through the carotid or femoral artery takes about 45 seconds or more. Meanwhile the baseball bat/machete swinging thug is still attacking.

A wadcutter contacts more surface area and also produces clean cuts on capillaries. Because it had more surface area to contact in a more obtuse way, it is more likely to induce shock than a FMJ RN or an HP.

When I carried a revolver 24/7 it was always full of wadcutters. These days I tote an auto. I still go for surface area and that means .45.

There is no evidence a .357/6 in HP is more likely to induce shock than a .45. There is also no evidence a RNFMJ is less likely to induce shock than a .357/6.

You want a one-shot stop - make head shots.
 
I have a few boxes of Speer Lawman 230 grain FMJ's they tear through the paper and keep going. They are cheap enough for practice to me and a alternative to carry if none is availible.

My carry Gold Dot Hollow Point 230 grain .45 ACP slice neat holes in target after leaving gun in a hurry. But it's gonna be a hell of a stop inside the bad guy.

I always keep 4 boxes (20 each box) on hand at all times in addition to the one already either in the gun or the spare clip.

20 or 12 gauge slugs also expand inside bad guy, but will splatter gore all over the place both coming and going. In fact, some of my hotter slugs wont even expand until they hit a tree or something OUTSIDE the home.

So how do you want it?
 
I have discovered through my own test; milk jugs, hanging meat, sand bags, etc... (Not very scientific, but it satisfies my concerns); that each gun is different and certain ammo works great in some guns but others work better in different guns. For me; in my main 3 hand guns:

1. S&W Model 13 revolver 357 magnum: 158 grain Federal Hydra-Shok
2. SigSauer P220 45acp: 230 grain Remington Golden Sabers
3. FEG AP-MBP 32acp: 60 grain Fiocchi Hollow Points

I've used different types of SD ammo in the Sig P220. I've used Hydra-Shock, Golden Sabers, Corbon, Gold-Dot, etc... For this particular 45acp (P220, or at least mine); the golden sabers expanded the best, retained their shape and didn't break up, and penetrated the best. This is not to say that in a 1911A1, SA XD, Glock, etc... that it's going to perform exactly the same. Just like in the 32acp. Most people believe that FMJ is the best ammo because of penetration vs a very small bullet and HP expansion. I tend to agree. However; I have come to the conclusion that American guns should use American ammo; and European guns should use European ammo. As such, the Fiocchi hp in the Hungarian gun goes as fast and with as much energy as the majority of all 380's. Thus getting the best of both worlds. It feeds perfectly, as compared to misfeeds with numerous USA brand ammo. Does in fact expands. And with 1200 fps and 210 ft/lbs, it performs well.

So, for your 45acp, if you can shoot different rounds in a somewhat practical test, then try it and determine what's best for your gun. If you can't, then any of the well know brands will do quite well.
 
BTW, as far as the guy behind the counter saying that JHP's are a waste of money for the 45...

So what.

You aren't using them for target practice. Other than firing a few to make sure they shoot accurately and cycle your weapon, they'll just going to sit in your magazine waiting to be thrown at the BG.

My self defense ammo could cost $50 a box for all I care. It's a one time purchase and if I end up needing to use it I'm not going to care how much it costs as long as I'm still alive at the end.
 
Nope the guy is wrong.....

The entrance wound on the left was made by a 230-gr. 45-caliber Golden Saber. The one on the right was made by a 9mm 127-gr. Winchester +P+. These pictures are not to scale, but the entrance holes inside these two whitetail deer were very similar in appearance. The one on the left was merely taken at closer distance than the 9mm-wound picture.

See 9mm vs 45 ACP Link

A whole made from a .45 ACP hollow point is alot greater than one left by a 9mm hollow point.
 
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