45 acp out of battery on rounds

[bbqreloader]

facts:Sig p220, 45 acp, xtreme 185gr fp plated, rcbs dies, rockchucker, mixed cases. Powder ranges from univerasal, cfe, hs6.
OAL- have loaded several hundred rounds at 1.220 with no issues. But as of lately about every 4th or 5th round, the slide does not come forward. When I go to eject, it take some force to get the slide back. The brass comes out, powder spills out, but the bullet is stuck in the mouth of the barrel. Set my original OAL with a plunk test, but was using RN bullets when I did it.
Crimp is light at a .471.
Thought process is that the OAL needs to come down 1.210? (measured some manfacturer rounds and they average to a 1.210)
Am I on the right track with the solution based on the description?

 

[Blue68f100]

Every time you change bullets you need to check/adj OAL due to different ogive. Retest you plunk test with the new bullet. Probably getting into the lands.

If ok, the bullet may moving under recoil, weak neck tension. See if you can push the bullet down by hand.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I load those X-treme 185 FP's to 1.150" for my HK.
Agree that your neck tension needs checking.

 

[wmurphy]

Increase your crimp (not really crimp, just takes the bell out) just a bit.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The bullet is being jammed into the rifling, and when you pull the slide back, it's unseating the bullets. You need to seat the bullets deeper to function in your chamber.

It would also be a good idea to work up your load again with the deeper seating.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[bbqreloader]

The bullet is being jammed into the rifling, and when you pull the slide back, it's unseating the bullets. You need to seat the bullets deeper to function in your chamber.

It would also be a good idea to work up your load again with the deeper seating.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Fred, that would indicate why I am ending up with a small notch on the tip of the bullet.
Guess it's time to work up new loads from ground up again...means more range time. bummer lol!

 

[Walkalong]

Wouldn't hurt to check neck tension as well.

 

[bbqreloader]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Put together some dummy rounds at 1.200 OAL tonight, all seem to function well.
Walkalong, found an article that I believe BDS, put out a while back about how to figure the taper measurement you should have. So got it down to around a .470, see if that adds to the fix also.

 

[joneb]

Could be if you are seating and crimping in one step the plating is flowing towards the bullet nose, and piling up at the case mouth. I solved this by seating and crimping in two steps.
I would check the offending loads under magnification.

 

[Walkalong]

No way that is happening with a proper taper crimp on .45 ACP. It would have to be grossly over crimped.

about every 4th or 5th round, the slide does not come forward. When I go to eject, it take some force to get the slide back. The brass comes out, powder spills out, but the bullet is stuck in the mouth of the barrel.

Maybe I'm just not awake, but this doesn't make sense to me. The slide stays back? Then you pull it back and it pulls the round apart?

I would check neck tension if rounds are coming apart, jammed into the rifling or not.

 

[243winxb]

Adjust OAL and check neck tension. Measure the neck area before and after seating a bullet. Has it expanded by .002" or more for proper neck tension?

[/URL][/IMG] If neck tension is to light, maybe try Lee Undersized Carbide Sizing Die 45 ACP. But to much tension may not be good on a soft core lead plated bullet?? Walkalong would know.

 

[bbqreloader]

No way that is happening with a proper taper crimp on .45 ACP. It would have to be grossly over crimped.

Maybe I'm just not awake, but this doesn't make sense to me. The slide stays back? Then you pull it back and it pulls the round apart?

I would check neck tension if rounds are coming apart, jammed into the rifling or not.

Walk, more coffee is always good! LOL! No, the slide is forward, just out of battery enough to cause it to not let the trigger/hammer function.
Fred had the most reasonable answer as to why the bullet was held in the lands when I could get the slide racked back.

 

[kwg020]

Do not use the "taper crimp" feature on your seater die. Use a separate taper crimp die. That way you know it's properly taper crimped. Even very small differences in the length of your brass will affect the neck tension. Make it a separate step.

Also watch how much you bell the brass before you insert the bullet and run it through the seater die. Work on achieving a minimum bell that allows you to properly place the bullet in the case before you complete the seating operation.

I also run the finished bullet and case through a trim die to make sure it is straight and will function in the chamber. Use a case gauge if you have one.
kwg

 

[Walkalong]

You can properly taper crimp a .45 ACP with the just as easily with the seater as a separate crimp die, and there is so little movement going on with a taper "crimp" on .45 ACP it does no hard to crimp and seat at the same time. While I agree setting up a separate crimp die is easier, doing it with the seater is pretty simple.

I have never had a neck tension problem from variances in .45 ACP case length. Over belling can definitely hurt neck tension, and no amount of taper crimp can fix neck tension. It's sole job is to remove the bell.

The OP needs to do the plunk test and check neck tension.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6354182&postcount=7

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7699828&postcount=14

 

[joneb]

No way that is happening with a proper taper crimp on .45 ACP. It would have to be grossly over crimped.

Using RCBS dies I have had a build up of lead and lube in front of the case mouth when seating and crimping in one step, this caused the gun (1911) to not always go into battery. My crimp was about .002" I don't think this is excessive.
I've loaded plated where a seat and crimp with a .002" crimp pushed the plating forward and caused a bulge at the case mouth, this to did not always allow the gun to go into battery.
Seat and crimp in two steps solved this problem for me, with the same COL.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm confused as to why the OP didn't do a plunk test with the new bullets and adjust the seating depth accordingly.

I agree it sounds like the neck tension is not proper. Like Walkalong said, I would check neck tension if rounds are coming apart, jammed into the rifling or not.

 

[Walkalong]

Using RCBS dies I have had a build up of lead and lube in front of the case mouth when seating and crimping in one step, this caused the gun (1911) to not always go into battery. My crimp was about .002" I don't think this is excessive.
I've loaded plated where a seat and crimp with a .002" crimp pushed the plating forward and caused a bulge at the case mouth, this to did not always allow the gun to go into battery.
Seat and crimp in two steps solved this problem for me, with the same COL.

The first is buildup causing a problem. That isn't a crimp problem. The second one I simply haven't had a problem with, lead or plated when taper crimping.

I did have one batch of plated where the case mouth was scraping the plating up in a bunch during seating, but that was just a bad batch of bullets. I had to flare much more than usual with them.

 

[243winxb]

45 acp seating lead swc.

Using RCBS dies I have had a build up of lead and lube in front of the case mouth when seating and crimping in one step, this caused the gun (1911) to not always go into battery.

Me also. The RCBS seat die removed the case bell to soon. I opened the inside die diameter with a wood dowel and emery paper. Dont go too deep and remove the taper crimp area.

 

[TfflHndn]

Fred has it exactly right. Had the same problem using the same OAL I had used with a different bullet profile. Also used the same Xtreme bullet as the original poster, and had them jam into the rifling, and pull apart when I had to really pull hard to get the slide back. Resized to a shorter length and everything was fine. Neck tension was fine, no problem with same or other rounds before or since. Just had to shorten the OAL. The key is to plunk test and then function check a new bullet/OAL each time with the gun or guns you plan on using it in.

 

[Walkalong]

Me also. The RCBS seat die removed the case bell to soon.

That can happen, and of course that is a die problem, not a crimping while seating problem.

My .458 Win Mag seater is very tight. Jacketed are great, but plated or lead are too fat. I wanted to try plated for reduced loads, but unless I open up the die like you did, or send it to RCBS, I am stuck using jacketed. It's not like I shoot hundreds of rounds through it though, so I am OK with it. I picked up 500 closeout jacketed bullets real cheap, so I am good for a while.

 

[bbqreloader]

The bullet is being jammed into the rifling, and when you pull the slide back, it's unseating the bullets. You need to seat the bullets deeper to function in your chamber.

It would also be a good idea to work up your load again with the deeper seating.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Fred and Tff, thanks, the OAL was the issue. Loaded test rounds from start charge to mid range again since I was shortening the OAL, all worked perfectly. Ran it down to a 1.200.

 

[ReloaderFred]

You're more than welcome. I'm glad you were able to work it out and have good results.

Fred