.45 colt dies for .454

[longhorngunman]

Recently bought a SRH in .454 and might buy some used RCBS reloading equipment. Since I'm a total novice about reloading I thought I would ask about dies. The RCBS equipment has some dies with it including .45 colt. Can these be used to load .454 also or do I need to buy .454 dies. Didn't know where to post here or the handloading forum. Figured you revolver lovers probably did a fair amount of reloading. Oh, the press is a RCBS special -5, what is the difference between it and the Rockcrusher?

 

[SnWnMe]

The flaring die might not offer enough adjustment to work on the shorter 45LC case for one.

 

[unspellable]

45 Colt dies for the 454

I generally have been using Lee dies which have enough adjustment room to take longer cases. I use 44 Special dies for 44 magnum and 445 SuperMag. I use 38 Special dies for 357 Magnum and 357 SuperMag.

In the case of trying to use 45 Colt dies for the 454 Casull you have more to consider than just length. While the nominal diameters are the same the tolerances are not. The 454 chambers run much tighter than the typical 45 Colt chamber. It's possible a set of 45 Colt dies will not size the brass down to a small enough diameter. It's a "try it and see" proposition.

Another problem along the same line occurs when loading cast bullets i nthe 454. Cast bullets are generally 0.001 or so larger than jacketed bullets. I've had 454's with cast bullets refuse to chamber and had to run the loaded cartridge up the sizer before it would chamber.

 

[rick_reno]

When I first started fooling around with the .454 in 1988, I was advised by Randy at Freedom Arms NOT to use 45 Colt dies for the .454. The crimp die is slightly different than the standard crimp die in a way that allows a tapered roll crimp to hang onto the heavier bullets at the higher velocities and the sizing die is smaller in diameter to help in the retention of the heavier bullets. I also don't believe you can full length size a .454 case with a 45 Colt die, I don't think it's long enough.

If you want a set of dies that will do both - Redding has a 45 Colt/454 die set. I don't know if it's carbide - I stick with RCBS carbide dies for pistol loading.

That said - I do know people who load .454 ammo using 45 Colt dies, so it obviously can be done. I don't find that dies are that expensive and they have excellent value even when used - so I always get them for the caliber I'm loading. It's a relatively cheap investment to make sure things are done right, and when you compare the cost of factory .454 ammo to what you can make your own for the dies are really cheap.

 

[longhorngunman]

Thanks for the info. I will just buy the. 454 dies when I start reloading. If it all was a perfect fit I would use the .45's. Being a newbie and knowing the pressures the .454's are loaded to I will stick to one set per cartridge. Being that the Ruger will shoot both I will still buy the .45 dies so I can reload them and work up some warm .45 loads. Till then who sells hot .45 colt on the net. Heck I'll just start a thread.

 

[JNewell]

When I talked this through with the people at RCBS and FA, they both told me that what I should buy was the .454C set and a .45LC crimp die, in part for the reasons mentioned by Rick.

 

[GooseGestapo]

FWIW:

I load my .45lc with .45acp dies. It sizes them down more than the .45lc dies I had, and I get better accuracy and less bullet movement from heavy loads. (315gr WFN-GC over XXX gr of #2400). Don't even think of shooting this load thru your SAA or replica.

The .45acp also has a modified taper crimp which works well with all style bullets (Lee dies).

The .45acp dies will probably work better with the .454 than would the .45lc dies.

What with the performance of my Ruger RH in .45lc, I don't think I'd care for a .454.

 

[bakert]

Don't know about the .454 but do know that most people that shoot .452 cast or .451 jacketed bullets using Lee dies in .45 Colt in Rugers or S&Ws use the .45ACP sizing die. You have to do this to get a decent bullet pull. I think many other die makers may have both sizers. I don't really see the problem of loading the .454 but I've been wrong before.

 

[bakert]

Don't know about the .454 but do know that most people that shoot .452 cast or .451 jacketed bullets using Lee dies in .45 Colt in Rugers or S&Ws use the .45ACP sizing die. You have to do this to get a decent bullet pull. I think many other die makers may have both sizers. I don't really see the problem of loading the .454 lke this and using the Lee .45 Colt factory crimp die but I've been wrong before.

 

[BluesBear]

Back That Bus Up!

SAAMI specifications for the .454 Casull and the modern .45 Colt are the same except for case length. There should be no problem loading one with the other PROVIDED you are using dies of recent manufacture.

You'll notice that most current catalogues list the dies as suitable for both.

Older dies with a .454" expander die won't work as well with the .452" bullets specified for the .454 Casull. Also there could be a probl;em with older dies designed to crimp only lead bullets. Any modern die set sould be suited to both lead and jacketed bullets.


Now...


While you MIGHT be able to use .45acp dies I DO NOT RECCOMEND IT. The ACP cartridge has different dimentions.
I ain't getting my a$$ sued off for advocating something that could be dangerous.

There are differences in cartridge diameter that could create a problem with the very high pressure .454 Casull cartridge. ESPECIALLY after several loadings as the brass becomes work hardened from excessive resizing in ACP dies.

Just as you should only shoot ammo in a gun properly chambered for it you should ONLY reload ammo in the properly sized dies.

 

[unspellable]

SAAMI specs

The SAAMI specs for the cartrdige and chamber dimensions on the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt are NOT the same! (Lenght aside.) Both cartridges have the same nominal diameters, but the tolerances are different. The 454 has much tighter tolerances. This is why a 45 Colt sizing die is not guranteed to size the case down enough to fit the 454 chamber. probably most 45 Colt dies will, but there are a few out there that don't.

The SAAMI 454 Casull chamber is SMALLER in diameter than the 45 Colt chamber. This means a case on the large end of the 45 Colt tolerance range will not chamber. The large tolerances and large chamber for the 45 Colt are a hang over from the old black powder days when you had to leave room for the crud buildup.

This becomes quite noticable with cast bullets which usually run a tad larger than jacketed bullets. After loading cast bullets in 454 cases we found they would not chamber and had to be run through the sizer again, bullet and all.

As mentioned above, for full house loads, the crimp is different.

Also, some jacketed bullets, meant for the 45 Colt, will, when used with full house loads in the 454, deform too much under the high pressure and get rough with the forcing cone causing premature wear. Part of the reason the 454 factory ammo is so pricey is the premium bullets they are using.