45 Colt Ruger Only Loads

[huntincowboy]

Hey everyone, I have a question about the Ruger only 45 Colt loads. I am using the load that is listed in the Lee manual of 25.7 gr of H110 with a Hornady XTP 250 gr bullet. It is quite a load but fun to shoot. I am slightly worried about how much higher than I have seen in other manuals this data is. I checked Hodgdon's website and they have the same load listed, so I'm fairly sure it isn't a misprint. I'm not seeing any sticky cases or flattened primers, but when I was cleaning my Blackhawk, I could see places where the bluing is being worn and it looks like it is literally blasted off of there. I am wondering if there are any signs of over doing it on the gun to be wary of that aren't in the obvious list of things to look for (obvious being cracks or bends). It's a new gun and I have put maybe 100 rounds of heavy stuff through it and 400 of the cowboy load type stuff.
I just made the heavy stuff for fun and shooting those pesky pigs that seem to be able to take a hit from a howitzer and keep on chuggin. Not looking for a debate over whether I should get a magnum instead, I just want some input. Maybe some inspection that I could do to see if my gun is getting beat down? It works fine mechanically.
In the picture, it looks dirty and it actually is a little bit. This is prior to cleaning, but what's there doesn't really come off.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What's on your cylinder is carbon and even though it's hard to clean it can be cleaned if done correctly.If it were a stainless cylinder instead of Blued you could use a Lead-Away cloth and clean it up in a few minutes but that cloth and other cloths like it will also remove the Bluing from metal so that's a no-go.

From what I can see in the picture I can't see any damage only carbon. Soak the cylinder in a good cleaner for a good while and then use a stiff brush on it and the carbon will go away... (not that a little carbon will harm the cylinder)

 

[SEE IT LIKE A NATIVE]

I don't see anything unusual in the picture ! That is listed as a starting load on the Hodgdon web site ! i would not reduce the charge at all with H110 ! If you are not happy with the results ,try another powder ! Kevin

 

[gamestalker]

I have been using H110 and 296 exclusivelt for a good 30 yrs. with absolutely no complaints. Even though those loads are just about as full house as magnum wheel gun cartridges get, they are quite safe when fired from a firearm that has the integrity to match, which the Ruger is certainly well built in this respect.

And as mentioned already, do not reduce the charge below published minimums with either H110 or 296. FYI, H110 and 296 are the exact same powder. I just thought I would provide that little tid bit just in case you were not aware of it. It's helpful to know, in the event you should not be able to find H110, substituting with 296 would not require any further adjustments of the charge weight.

One more bit of info. to know when using that powder. Don't substitute standard primers in place of magnum primers. Those ball powders can be difficult to light up, so they require a magnum primer to consistently ignite them.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I shoot 24 gr H110 250 gr XTP in my Uberti Cattleman revolver.
It is the only thing I have ever shot in it repeatedly.
It is kicking me into next week and getting 1215 fps with a 4.5" barrel.
22 kpsi in Quickload when the chrono matches the predicted velocity.
1535 fps in a 16.25" rifle.

With a heavy crimp, I can cut that down to 20 gr if I want.

I may switch to a more reducible powder, like AA#9 or 2400.


OK RC, but I have done some stress anal, and the Cattleman has got more margin with those loads than the Ruger does with some of it's published loads.

 

[rcmodel]

Uberti Cattleman revolver.

You might want to add a disclamer to that post.

Your Uberti Cattleman revolver is not a Ruger, it is a Colt SAA clone.
And it is not rated safe with "Ruger Only" loads, or any loads that generate 22,000 PSI.
Least some newby might think it is from your post.

rc

 

[huntincowboy]

Thanks guys. I wasn't wanting to load any lower I just wanted to make sure I wasn't over stressing the gun any. Shooting those loads I'm sure will be rough on it, but I don't shoot them much. Anyone ever got to a point where the H110 heavy loads caused any problems with the suggested loadings?

 

[huntincowboy]

One more bit of info. to know when using that powder. Don't substitute standard primers in place of magnum primers. Those ball powders can be difficult to light up, so they require a magnum primer to consistently ignite them.

I use the WLP primers which say they are good for magnum or regular loads. Is that something that needs to change?

 

[Lucas_Y]

I've had a mixed performance using a 25.5 grain load, under a 255 grain LSWC using magnum primers. I looked into it more when I was working up loads, and came across a few writings about H100 being more consistent the closer it is loaded to maximum loads. Velocities of my loads have less spread when loaded close to or at maximum than starting loads.

You should be good with the WLP primers, I've used them with no issues. You might just have to experiment with your loads to see what works best for your gun. I know my blackhawk shoots best a few tenths of a grain under max using H110, in the 3 different bullet weights I've tried.

 

[huntincowboy]

Well I tried to clean off the carbon with some Break Free, but it didn't really get it off too good. I noticed when I was cleaning the frame that there are a few "spots" that look almost like pitting. I really don't think that is what it is because I take very good care of my guns and this thing is about 6 months old. It's in the corners of the frame in front of the cylinder and all along the top strap. I suppose this could be from casting (if they are cast I don't even know). Does anyone else notice this on their blackhawk? Mine is blued not stainless.

 

[gamestalker]

Huntincowboy, I've used the WLP that are rated standard or mag. applications and they did light the powder up every time, but I also noticed some very irratic velocities and general burn characteristics. If your going for good consistent velocities and across the board performance, I would still suggest a magnum only primer. CCI-550's have performed extremely consistent in this respect. Using the identical maximum + a little load I've shot for decades, the Winchester magnum only LPP actually increased pressures by a good noticable degree. Nothing terribly bad happened other than 2 or 3 of 50 cases had partial head separations. Just be careful to avoid getting hurt, and make sure to have fun running those flame throwing loads.

Just so there is no mistake, I am referring to 296/H110 loads.

 

[huntincowboy]

Gamestalker- Thanks for the advice! I have plenty of fun with those high power loads! Makes a nice hole in a stack of phone books or empties a jug of water quickly.
The only complaint I have is how temperature sensitive the H110 is. I loaded them in the summer out in the garage and shot one during deer season. I was surprised when the recoil was so mild. It didn't squib or anything, it just didn't have that power it did during the summer. I won't be loading any rounds during the winter without doing it in the house. I don't want to see the opposite effect.

 

[Old Fuff]

The problem with "Ruger only" loads is that if one or more are a bit over the limit you may end up with an expanded chamber (or chambers as the case may be). At this point you've ruined the cylinder, but the only evidence may be some unexpected difficulty trying to extract the fired cases. The often suggested solution is to polish the chambers, which may or may not solve the problem, but simply mask the real issue. Ruger's service department checks for expanded chambers if there is so much as a hint that they're might be a possibility - and if they find one or more you, not they will pay for repairs.

 

[Boxhead]

I have never had a problem with what Hodgdon's data for "Ruger Only" loads in my Ruger's. I would not worry a bit about damaging the gun.

 

[CraigC]

Agreed, Hodgdon is the best source for "Ruger only" .45Colt data. And for .44Mag data as well.

I like to load my USFA and Colt sixguns a little heavy, most following Dave Scovill's lead but I wouldn't be playing around with that 24.0gr H110 load in a Uberti. Heaviest I've seen is 23.0gr but that's in a New Frontier, not an Italian replica of questionable strength.

 

[huntincowboy]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice!

 

[Old Fuff]

I have never had a problem with what Hodgdon's data for "Ruger Only" loads in my Ruger's. I would not worry a bit about damaging the gun.

The position I stated was based on a conversation I had with Bill Ruger on the subject. His position in turn was based on some of the guns he examined that had been returned to the factory.

I care not one wit about what others shoot in their handguns, but I will observe that what worrying that does occur (if any) comes about after the fact - not before.

 

[USSR]

The position I stated was based on a conversation I had with Bill Ruger on the subject. His position in turn was based on some of the guns he examined that had been returned to the factory.

Please explain how one would know what load was used by examining a gun? Just curious.

Don

 

[RalphS]

Ruger's service department checks for expanded chambers if there is so much as a hint that they're might be a possibility

This is the first time I've heard this. Please give some more information.

 

[CraigC]

"Ruger only" .45Colt data is very, very well proven. If someone expands a chamber in a Ruger .45Colt, it's because they went off the beaten path. Which is not exclusive to Ruger .45's and not the fault of the data or the sixgun.

 

[Old Fuff]

This is the first time I've heard this. Please give some more information.

Checking for the possibility of expanded chambers caused by over-loaded hand loads is not a practice that's an exclusive with Ruger. Others take the same precaution.

As a general rule, no manufacturer warrantees their products when they are used with hand loaded ammunition, and this is particularly true if they find evidence that ammunition exceeding SAAMI specifications was fired.

Ruger revolvers, as well as those made by other quality manufacturers have a generous safety factor built in, which allows some to assemble hand loads that exceed (sometimes substantially so) those specifications, but as the load increases the margin of safety decreases. Thus if a load, for what ever reason, is "too-much" under whatever circumstances, a cylinder may be stressed to the point that the chamber is expanded, but short of rupturing. While this may not be noticed by the naked eye, it is detectable with gauges.

Once a chamber (or chambers) are expanded the cylinder is stressed to the point of being ruined, and the only safe alternative is to replace it.

If one wants to use ammunition that comes close to the limits of what their particular firearms will stand, and ignore the possibility that in assembling such ammunition one or more cartridges may go over the limit, that's their business. But if that happens (and it does) no manufacturer is going to fix it under warrantee - written or implied.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Huntincowboy, those "pits" you see are defects in the casting. Perfectly normal on Rugers. Some are worse than others, but I have a few, both stainless and blued, that have some divots and grooves on the inside surfaces of the cylinder frame window. Ruger doesn't really "finish" that area, i.e. polish it out like they do the exterior surfaces.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

Oh, and your Hodgdon book load for H110 with that XTP is fine. Your Blackhawk will eat that all day long.

 

[CraigC]

A large frame Ruger .45Colt running at 32,000psi is no more or less safe than a factory .44Mag running at standard pressures. Nor does it have less of a margin of safety. No difference whatsoever. Perception varies, reality doesn't.

 

[Old Fuff]

Perception varies, reality doesn't.

Ah, but the reality is that Ruger, Smith & Wesson and others get back revolvers in their service departments that have expanded chambers.

As I pointed out, when you're right you may be O.K., but if you make a mistake there is little room for error.

From my perspective, and for that matter Ruger's, is that advocates for these "Ruger Only" loads never point out the risks, and assume they know more the the company's engineers.

As a public service I have done so, and now I'll let the matter rest.

 

[CraigC]

But the points you make are not exclusive to the large frame Ruger .45Colt. They could be made about any firearm in any chambering. Exceed published data and bad things can happen. That's true of anything. However, we're not talking about exceeding published data but following published data. As usual when this discussion comes up, there are always those who say it's unsafe and not to do it. When pressed for evidence to support their claim, nothing but crickets. Fact is, this practice is very, very well proven. So well in fact that most reloading manuals have a section for "Ruger only" data. The same can't even be said for the .44Spl and folks have been loading it well above SAAMI pressure standards for 80 friggin' years.

The fact that Ruger recommends only industry standard pressure factory loads is irrelevant. It's a legal position and to think about it logically, it's the only position to be in for Ruger. It is as it always has been, the responsibility of the handloader to know the limitations of the firearm he's loading for.

As I pointed out, when you're right you may be O.K., but if you make a mistake there is little room for error.

Again, this is true of anything. In fact, you have a 100% margin for error in a large frame Ruger .45Colt operating at 32,000psi. The same margin we have in .44Mag's. Proven. Fact.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm