45 Reload Sizing Problem

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627PCFan

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I just got done a bulk run of 1k 45 rounds. They are Xtreme plated 45 HP and 4.8gns of 231, mixed brass. My problem is 1 out of every 8-10 rounds wont fully chamber during live fire. I duplicated the issue at home and noticed that i had some wear (highlighted in red) on the case where the base of the bullet is. All rounds were run through full set of Lee Pacesetter dies and the cases that rub and jam are mixed brass, no one manufacturer is the culprit. The rub takes place on different places when chambered. (some 4 o'clock, some 7oclock ect.) The gun is a Caspian 1911 with a Nowlin barrel. Is there a special final sizing die that would take the finished round down another thousandth or so? The final Lee sizing die is obviously not enough.
 

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My Nowlin barrels tend to be a little tight, but I don't have one in .45 acp, so I don't have any experience with them in that caliber. In looking at your loaded round, it appeared that maybe it could benefit from just a tad more taper crimp, but it may have just been the photograph.

You can remove the barrel from the pistol and drop the rounds in the chamber to check fit. (the old "plunk test") After sorting some out, see if there's a commonality in the rejects and then work from there.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Thicker brass on some maybe, possible bullet not started straight.
s there a special final sizing die that would take the finished round down another thousandth or so?
If you had a Lee FCD you could probably "fix" the ones that are causing a problem.

Don't want to turn the thread into a FCD debate, it is liked or hated depending on who you ask.
I use it for all 9mm ammo and most of the time on .45s
 
Seems to me that the mark is at the base of the bullet. Probably the bullet was not seated straight coursing the case to bulge at one side.
 
I would take a handfull of the offending rounds, back the seating stem out of your seating die and add 1/4 turn to the crimp then try re crimping them. Then try plunking them. If they all go in reset the seating stem to the top of the bullet and you are GTG. It might take up to another 1/4 turn still. IMHO the use of the FCD for this reason will post size the plated bullet along it's entire length with the carbide sizing ring and possibly (often) hurt accuracy while the taper crimp only does it to the bullet from the mouth down minimally, keeping the bullet base a bit larger. Same is true for lead bullets I find. Also when setting the bullets in place making sure you have enough neck expansion, the brass is fully in the shellholder (it might have some crud in the groove where the rim sits), and they are placed in square will allow them to be seated in with no angled sidewall bulge. YMMV
 
My guess: COAL is a bit long for your chamber. What is your COAL measurement?

That particular bullet has quite a large, blunt ogive.
As suggested, plunk your rds and see if they fit your chamber. Then, adjust COAL if needed.
 
If it is fat and binding where the red is, you need to get them seated straighter IMHO. Start them straighter in other words. The Lee FCD would probably make them chamber.

If it is just a rub mark, no big deal.

Have you tried the plunk test with them?
 
I have to wonder just how crooked the bullets could really be, once pressed fully into the case. I'm guessing the rub mark is simply due to which spot on the case happened to run across the feed ramp. I.e.: not a problem.

Pull the barrel and run the plunk test: http://i.imgur.com/q7G0i.jpg

I'm guessing you need to seat the bullets a hair deeper and that's all that's wrong.
 
The COAL is 1.260. Its possible that a few of them were not centered when I ran them through the seating die. If I get one the Lee FCD dies, how much does that take the bullet down to get the case down in size. I don't want to swage the bullet so it doesn't fit the bore correctly. Also the spot in red denotes the rub mark when I do the plunk test with the barrel removed from the gun, not just upon actual loading during firing.
 
how much does that take the bullet down to get the case down in size
Depends,
On how much the bullet is oversize if any, how thick the brass is....
So the answer is maybe not at all, or a little bit.
I will go run a couple cases thru mine and measure for you here later today.
 
So, I had a similar issue with my Lee dies at one point. IIRC the issue had to do with the seating plug binding in the seating die. Give yours a shake and see if it rattles around. I think I had to take mine out and wipe it down with some clp. It's been a while, but I think that was the issue...i know I had an rcbs that had the same issue. Also, isn't there a different seating plug for hollowpoints vs ball? I may have just made that up, but I think that's right.
 
I have never had a problem seating and taper crimping in the same step. If you do have problems trying to do the steps separately might show you if there is a problem. Maybe I never seem to get problems with my dies because every so often I take them apart, clean them in my tumbler, and reassemble them.YMMV
 
The COAL is 1.260.
How did you decide that was the COAL to use? It is possible the rounds are just a hair too long in the chamber you have. That along with the slight cant of the bullet will cause your problem IMO. Like said several times already, plunk test your rounds to be sure.
 
Trying to push a bullet further into the case while "squeezing" the case around the bullet, can lead to expansion of the case immediately below the crimp area. That's why I always teach to seat and taper crimp in separate operations for autoloader ammo. You are asking a lot of an autoloader round in regards to feeding, as opposed to revolver rounds, so correct case dimensions are critical.

Don
 
Lee decap/resize die
Lee FCD
Measured some and the average is .4685-.469 at the case mount (calipers round to .0005) and .469 at the base.
 
We simply need more information....
• First you need to make sure you bought 45ACP bullets and not 45Colt bullets. "45" is not always 45.
(And it would help us in the future if you could be more specific in your opening post.)
• Then you need to take several diameter measurements along the cartridge, ending with one at the case mouth. Like so...
4nQnUAEuVW-UugRb_9N_pX8mn65rP_jUg2U_Y-dhjpMmEHhWdSv8m-mIWdYOTeAsz7ohKspT6MDBsWWjLvI=w257-h193-no.jpg
• Those measurements must not exceed the cartridge dimensions shown in your manual for 45ACP. Even 0.001" over is way too much !
• You mention the Lee FCD. Kudos for apparently doing the taper crimp in a separate step, but if your Seating Die is crimping and then you add the FCD, you may in fact be over-crimping and buckling the case.

My problem is 1 out of every 8-10 rounds wont fully chamber during live fire. I duplicated the issue at home and noticed that i had some wear (highlighted in red) on the case where the base of the bullet is.
• I hope you did not do this exercise with live ammo. Everything we do in reloading is to enhance safety. The proper technique is to make up 10 cartridges with NO powder and NO primer using the same dies and die settings. Then use these "test cartridges" to exercise your pistol.

Is there a special final sizing die that would take the finished round down another thousandth or so? The final Lee sizing die is obviously not enough.
• You clearly do not understand the physical part of reloading. (That statement is without malice, and merely an observation.) Allow me to help you. All sizing takes place in the first die, the Sizing Die, at which time the case OD is taken under-size. In the second step the Expander enlarges the inside diameter of the case mouth to be approximately 0.002" smaller than the bullet, but the case is still under-size. In the Seating Die the bullet is guided from the top by the seating stem, and from the bottom by the belling (or flair) on the case mouth. Then in the final step the belling is erased by the Taper Crimp die (which may be built into the Seating Die, or done in a 4th die step.) There is no "final sizing die", and if the dies are set correctly, none will ever be needed.
• When the finished cartridge comes out of the last step, every diameter dimension should be smaller than the one shown in the manual. The physical test is to drop the cartridge into the naked barrel. The cartridge should fall all the way into, and then all the way back out of the naked barrel using only the cartridge weight. Like so...
RpsZ0L_8_Z-LgW6fF9ELm3ECGIAUarBgRCYnYj9HK3LZ0fW20LRoWY3YMsYFzAd9i5qirTQKM2yr5RvatW8=w237-h177-no.jpg
• If the bullet is being seated off-axis then the belling is not large enough or the seating stem inside the Seating Die may fit the meplat of the bullet improperly.

The bottom line is the external dimensions tell the story, and dropping the finished cartridge into the chamber deliver the proof the cartridge will feed well.

Hope this helps.
 
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