45 sidelock for game?

[brewer12345]

I am toying with the idea of picking up a 45 barrel for my rifle. My state says I can only hunt big game with a 45 if I use a conical. That is all good, since I cast and can pick up a REAL or maxi ball mold and make up as many as I like. Anyone hunted deer or other game with a 45? I assume that if the rifle will shoot accurately with such a load, I could always put a smaller powder charge under a round ball and maybe whack small game with it.

 

[troy fairweather]

Most off my bp deer were shot with a 45, I have wanted to get a kibler southern mountain rifle to use for small game, here in New York I can't see if we are allowed to use smaller cal rifles. The only thing you can find is were they say must be 44cal or bigger.

I've seen guys shooting 45s with light loads they were very impressive.

 

[kBob]

So goggle Mormon Avenger Pistol and see what you get....

-kBob

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My state says I can only hunt big game with a 45 if I use a conical..., I cast and can pick up a REAL mold and make up as many as I like. Anyone hunted deer or other game with a 45? I assume that if the rifle will shoot accurately with such a load, I could always put a smaller powder charge under a round ball and maybe whack small game with it.

So it depends I guess on what you find in your state for big game. The patched .440 round ball has been shown for about two centuries now, to be a whitetail harvester....and long ago (like the 1970's) lots of places thought you needed something like a pair of patched round ball in your barrel to take a whitetail with a .440 round ball. Oh well..

The REAL bullet has an advantage...you know it's engaging your rifling when you load it. The only other question is twist rate, but in a .45 barrel right now 1:48 is getting hard to find. 1:56 will probably work. You could always call the barrel company and tell them your dilemma. Yes you could downsize the load and shoot small game with a patched round ball.

LD

 

[brewer12345]

Dave, historically I know 45 PRB was commonly used. My state says it is not legal so it doesn't really matter what I think.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My state says it is not legal so it doesn't really matter what I think.

Hence my comment, "oh well"...and my pointing out that the REAL bullet automatically grabs your rifling, and that it will only then depend on whether or not the twist rate works for the bullet.

LD

 

[brewer12345]

Hence my comment, "oh well"...and my pointing out that the REAL bullet automatically grabs your rifling, and that it will only then depend on whether or not the twist rate works for the bullet.

LD

Yeah. The barrel is a TC Hawken, so 1 in 48. My other TC 1 in 48 barrels tend to like conicals really well. My only hangup with the REAL is that I had an odd experience last fall in the field with a 54 cal REAL. They shoot well in that rifle, but when I emptied the gun shooting at a stump at the end of the hunt, the bullet struck very wide of the target. I slipped and fell during the day on that hunt and I fell pretty hard. I suspect that I somehow broke the bullet loose in the barrel without knowing it (canted? the load did not move forward because I checked). I guess we will see. I ordered the combo ball/REAL mold for 45 and I am on the lookout for a maxi ball mold and we will see what it shoots when the weather clears up this spring.

 

[Bill M.]

A .45 shooting the modern muzzleloader bullets with the plastic skirt is powerful and accurate. Easy to load too. My .50 with the red dot and the sabots shoots 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards with a heavy charge. (It took me almost 2 weeks to heal the bruise), Thinking about getting a .45 barrel just to reduce recoil.

 

[brewer12345]

No red dots allowed for hunting here. No sabots either. I am a caster anyway, so that is the direction I am headed.

 

[ThomasT]

I have a Cabelas Hawken in 45 caliber I built from a kit way back in the late 1990s. Its my favorite BP rifle. It has a 1/48 twist and shoots both PRB and Lee 200fr REA bullets very well. I have never killed anything with it but don't think killing our small Tx whitetail would be any problem with the PRB. And no problem at all with the 200gr conical. My gun has an unusual rifling with a 12 groove barrel and 1/48 twist. Its almost like a Marlin Micro-Groove barrel but with much deeper lands and grooves. And that kit sold for $129 back then.

I have shot light loads of 25grs of 3F behind the patched ball and it groups well enough for squirrel and rabbit hunting. Any lower than that and you have to really raise the rear sight. But it would work for small game if you don't have a 32 or 36 for small game hunting. And from reading I have learned that 38 and 40 caliber rifles were common in the east for small game and neck shots on deer in the 18th century. Lead and powder were scarce and the bigger game had been hunted out so a smaller bore made sense. I read about one indian that was dug up and in the grave they found two 38 caliber balls he had been shot with. So they worked for SD also.

 

[dave951]

A 45 with PRB would be plenty for whitetail deer. The REAL bullet does quite well too. The main issue is can you shoot accurately? The difference between a 45 and 50 isn't much at the target.

 

[brewer12345]

Took a yearling whitetail doe at 50 to 60 yards with my 54 using PRB in October. The limitations on me are my tendency toward buck fever (working on it) and my eyesight. I spent a lot of time at the range last summer learning to use black powder rifles and dial in my rifles/loads. I would go 75 yards on a deer. Elk being a bigger target, I would be comfy taking a poke at them (requires 50 conical or 54 PRB in my state) to 100 to 125 yards. I do put in the time at the range to make the shot.

 

[Captcurt]

The 45 will get it done but most of the old style Hawkens and the like have a slow twist like 1:60 for round balls. Not sure that a 60 twist will stabilize a conical. I have seen some that were 1:44. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in on the twist.

 

[dave951]

The 45 will get it done but most of the old style Hawkens and the like have a slow twist like 1:60 for round balls. Not sure that a 60 twist will stabilize a conical. I have seen some that were 1:44. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in on the twist.

Ditto on the twist rates. Problem is, the twist varies between manufacturer, year, model, and caliber and there is almost no rhyme or reason for a change. On any given gun, you'll have to confirm it for yourself.

 

[PapaG]

I have never had good luck with the REAL but have shot the Maxi ball with good results in a TC Hawken, a Tingle and my flintlock with twists of 1 in 48, 56, and 66" respectively. Charges varied from 70 to 100 grains. Heaviest load was in the flinter as it had a Douglass deep groove barrel and I wanted sure upset.

 

[brewer12345]

So what I bought is an unfired 45 factory kit barrel for a tc hawken. 1 in 48 twist and it should fit my tc hawken in 50 Cal. I already have a factory 50 barrel for this rifle that has a 1 in 48 twist and a green mountain round ball barrel with a 1 in 66 twist.

I had no success getting the factory 50 barrel to shoot round ball well, but it shoots maxi balls like a laser. Will be interesting to see if the 45 is different. Bought a 45 maxi ball mold on eBay, so I can try that and the real.

 

[wmgeorge]

What did you pay for the 45 barrel? Looking at doing the same but a 50. My TC is 45 and my Lyman Flint is a 50 would like to make both the same.

 

[brewer12345]

What did you pay for the 45 barrel? Looking at doing the same but a 50. My TC is 45 and my Lyman Flint is a 50 would like to make both the same.

140. If you watch eBay you will get a sense of prices

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The 45 will get it done but most of the old style Hawkens and the like have a slow twist like 1:60 for round balls.

They do?

Huh...I was told by some folks at the NRA museum that while some of the not so famous makers of plains style rifles made slower twist barrel, or bought them and installed them, that the actual Hawken Brothers in St. Louis used a 1:48 twist because they either lost, forgot, or damaged their personal rifling machine, and the only one they could find for sale was a 1:48 twist rate. At least when they first set up shop. Whether they made some slower barrels later, they didn't say.

LD

 

[rodwha]

Like LD, I’ve only read of them being well known for 1:48” twists.