I am considering picking up a Remington r-15 chambered in 450 bushmaster sometime in the near future as I'd like to get into MSR's a little more and try an AR out deer hunting sometime. I already own a s&w m&p15 OR and a FN fnar but think the 450 would make a good walking rig in the woods where I deer hunt. I'm probably going to get people saying a 450 is way overkill yadda yadda but I really don't think it would be. I figure with proper bullet selection and at the velocities the 450B run at it'd make a good deer round that'd just punch a nice clean .45" diameter hole and exit vs. something like a 270 that travels at a higher speed and expands violently. Nothing wrong with 270 or traditional calibers, I've used them my whole life, I would just like to try something new and more-so have an excuse to buy another gun lol. Any experience with the 450 bushmaster for hunting purposes?
450 bushmaster
- Thread starter dubya450
- Start date
- Status
RX-178
Member
I'd also recommend the .458 over the .450 bushmaster. They're extremely similar cartridges, but the .458 SOCOM seems to be more common, with more options for ammo, and reloading.
Other than that, the two are just as hard hitting, just as hard recoiling, and just as (in my humble opinion) fun.
Other than that, the two are just as hard hitting, just as hard recoiling, and just as (in my humble opinion) fun.
Welding Rod
Member
The case is poorly dimensioned for the magazines in which it is intended to be fed. I would pass on the 450 BM. I bought 2 and was relieved to be able to sell them both after realizing this poorly engineered aspect of the cartridge.
Saying that, the cartridge is a good one, just not for use in an AR with the standard 556mags. If BM would manufacture a purpose built mag with feed lips of the proper dimensions and with side walls of adequate rigidity so the mag lips wouldn't spread in an inconsistant manner depending on how many rounds were in it at the time, it could be a fine setup.
Saying that, the cartridge is a good one, just not for use in an AR with the standard 556mags. If BM would manufacture a purpose built mag with feed lips of the proper dimensions and with side walls of adequate rigidity so the mag lips wouldn't spread in an inconsistant manner depending on how many rounds were in it at the time, it could be a fine setup.
Craigman
Member
My 450BM was just fine. I wasnt planning on taking it to war so rumors of bad feeding were no big deal. Never had a misfeed and it shot great and very accurate. True, the SOCOM is more versatile to the handloader but I've never seen any ammo for it in any of the Dozens of shops i frequent. Including Cabelas and Gander. 450BM ammo is stocked at 3 of my local Dunhams. The only reason I sold it was cause I was short on cash.
Txhillbilly
Member
Both the 450 Bushmaster and the 50 Beowulf shoot pistol bullets.The 458 SOCOM fires a .458 caliber rifle bullet just like a 45/70 or 458WM.The selection of bullets for the reloader is a lot better for the SOCOM.
SBR is one of the only mfg's of factory 458 SOCOM ammo,and it's very pricey. I strictly handload for my 458 SOCOM,and it's pretty reasonable to shoot it that way.
SBR is one of the only mfg's of factory 458 SOCOM ammo,and it's very pricey. I strictly handload for my 458 SOCOM,and it's pretty reasonable to shoot it that way.
Txhillbilly
Member
Yes,you can buy a complete 458SC upper from Rock River Arms.They run around $750 for the upper.
Welding Rod
Member
BTW, after I sold my BM 450s I bought a RRA 458 SOCOM. I found the 458 SOCOM cartridge is a vastly better match for use in 556 magazines. However due to its cost I consider the 458 as pretty much a "reloaders only" cartridge... or maybe reloaders and rich guys.
Lloyd Smale
Member
My buddy has a 450 and a 50beo. he likes them both. The 50 hits a bit harder but it hits a bit harder on both ends. Hes killed deer, pigs and bear with his 450 and says it does just fine. Hes got some serious neck problems from a broken neck when he was young and actually shoots his 450 alot more because of it. He said his 450 will outshoot his 50 hands down. Like was said the big advantage over the 458 is you can buy cheap handgun bullets to plink with. When i went to get a big bore ar i went with the 50beo just because it was bigger. If i wanted less id probably skip the 458 and go to a 450.
I have a 450 Bushmaster, 16" barrel, no problem with the factory mags. Accurate as anything I own, reload cause a I like too, but the factory Hornady ammo is excellent. Started with an upper on sale direct from the old Bushmaster a couple of years ago, then ended up building a dedicated lower with an Endine buffer and CTR stock. No experience with the .458 or .50, but at this point I don't feel handicaped using pistol bullets or the 250 gr ftx in reloads. Lots of info at 450bushmaster.net.
One thing nobody has mentioned is the option of resizing .458 rifle bullets for use in the .450. Sounds weird, but apparently there are a few folks doing it and hailing the versatility of the .450. I saw pics on beyond556, looks like they turn the bullets down to .452 or so? Something to consider... I'm still waiting on my AA .50 Beowulf upper myself, but I think all 3 rounds have their virtues.
redneck2
Member
I have a SOCOM. It's awesome. As noted, the .450 uses pistol bullets. For deer, I went with the SOCOM. Only taken one so far, but devastating is an understatement.
You can get a single stage Lee Loader and everything else you need for maybe $125. That's what it costs to fill the mag four times with factory ammo. Hand loads are sixty cents versus maybe $3+ for factory.
I can't imagine spending over $30 to fill a ten round mag once
You can get a single stage Lee Loader and everything else you need for maybe $125. That's what it costs to fill the mag four times with factory ammo. Hand loads are sixty cents versus maybe $3+ for factory.
I can't imagine spending over $30 to fill a ten round mag once
Last edited:
michael5446
Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2011
- Messages
- 20
aquired a 450 bushmaster when they first came out, paid 1300 for a rifle that misfed and was unreliable because of the magazine problems
... i "reconfigured" several stock mags and it works like a charm... the low cost of of ammo/reloading and the accuracy is a plus...
ive heard the standard sig mags are better??????
this is now my goto brush gun, i had to stick with it, way to much fun....
... i "reconfigured" several stock mags and it works like a charm... the low cost of of ammo/reloading and the accuracy is a plus...ive heard the standard sig mags are better??????
this is now my goto brush gun, i had to stick with it, way to much fun....
Attachments
Welding Rod
Member
Besides the small diameter of the case body that can almost fall through the opening of the feed lips (and may slip through with enough upward spring pressure), is the issue of the taper of the case body. It is just wrong for fully loading a 556 magazine. I would guess those two things are the reason BM furnishes a blocked magazine that only holds - what is it 4 or 5 rounds?
If you try loading up a regular mag to capacity the cartridges don't stack right due to the angle of their case taper. The front of the top round in the mag wants to pop up through the feed lips. When you load a fair number of rounds into a GI mag and magazine spring pressure increases the mag side walls flex outward a little and the front half of the top round may pop up through the lips.
Due to the mag wall flexing and fact the spacing between the feed lips almost allows the cartridge to slip through, the top round in magazine can take on a variety of angles depending on the how many rounds are currently in the magazine.
To be fair to BM, they minimize this poor deminsional match by blocking the magazine to limit capacity, minimize or eliminate feeding issues induced by the use of a magazine that is poorly suited to use with their cartridge. But a prospective buyer should be aware that the cartridge is absolutely not optimized in case diameter or taper for stacking to magazine capacity.
If a guy wanted a big bore for fun and was content with using the BM blocked magazine, it may not be a big issue. But I would never consider the 450 BM in a GI magazine as a combination that should be relied upon if reliability was an important issue.
To its credit, the extractors in the BMs I owned had substantially more extractor purchase on the case rim than my 458 Socoms do. Although I have yet to have an extraction problem with the Socoms.
Again, if BM would manufacture a purpose built magazine with sides that wouldn't flex outward and feed lips with the right (narrower) gap and angle they could have a fine setup.
If you try loading up a regular mag to capacity the cartridges don't stack right due to the angle of their case taper. The front of the top round in the mag wants to pop up through the feed lips. When you load a fair number of rounds into a GI mag and magazine spring pressure increases the mag side walls flex outward a little and the front half of the top round may pop up through the lips.
Due to the mag wall flexing and fact the spacing between the feed lips almost allows the cartridge to slip through, the top round in magazine can take on a variety of angles depending on the how many rounds are currently in the magazine.
To be fair to BM, they minimize this poor deminsional match by blocking the magazine to limit capacity, minimize or eliminate feeding issues induced by the use of a magazine that is poorly suited to use with their cartridge. But a prospective buyer should be aware that the cartridge is absolutely not optimized in case diameter or taper for stacking to magazine capacity.
If a guy wanted a big bore for fun and was content with using the BM blocked magazine, it may not be a big issue. But I would never consider the 450 BM in a GI magazine as a combination that should be relied upon if reliability was an important issue.
To its credit, the extractors in the BMs I owned had substantially more extractor purchase on the case rim than my 458 Socoms do. Although I have yet to have an extraction problem with the Socoms.
Again, if BM would manufacture a purpose built magazine with sides that wouldn't flex outward and feed lips with the right (narrower) gap and angle they could have a fine setup.
Thanks for all three great info/opinions guys. I don't reload yet, but when i find someone that knows what I need and can show me the ropes (I know no one who reloads..) I plan on doing so. I'm kind of stuck on the fence now between the 450 and 458. So far here's what I'm getting:
450 BUSHMASTER
PROS- fairly cheap uppers, easier and cheaper to find factory ammo
CONS- uses handgun bullets which I'm not sure they'd be the best for hunting, magazine/feeding issues
458 SOCOM
PROS- uses the same bullets as a 45/70 which would work better for hunting, better bullet selection for reloading
CONS- hard to find factory ammo and expensive
Anything I'm missing? I plan on buying one or the other just cant decide. Man I HATE decisions like this! :banghead:
450 BUSHMASTER
PROS- fairly cheap uppers, easier and cheaper to find factory ammo
CONS- uses handgun bullets which I'm not sure they'd be the best for hunting, magazine/feeding issues
458 SOCOM
PROS- uses the same bullets as a 45/70 which would work better for hunting, better bullet selection for reloading
CONS- hard to find factory ammo and expensive
Anything I'm missing? I plan on buying one or the other just cant decide. Man I HATE decisions like this! :banghead:
Lloyd Smale
Member
keep in mind that theres 45 cal pistol bullets like the nos partitions and other premium bullets that will alow you to kill anything walking with a 450.
armarsh
Member
Bullet sizing die: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/444306/lee-bullet-lube-and-size-kit-451-diameter
for $20 you can size whatever .458 rifle bullet you want to .451.
The 450 bushmaster is based on 284 Winchester brass, so it would always be available. Not so with the 458, being based on a lengthened 50 AE.
for $20 you can size whatever .458 rifle bullet you want to .451.
The 450 bushmaster is based on 284 Winchester brass, so it would always be available. Not so with the 458, being based on a lengthened 50 AE.
jerkface11
Member
LOL show me some brass for sale.
dprice3844444
member
great for short range brush work.get a t/c contender barrel setup for a pistol .
redneck2
Member
A few years ago, I got some from Midway. Dunno if they actually have any in stock now. Mine's lasted multiple loadings and still going. Do yourself a favor and get a shell catcher. You cry if you lose brass in the weeds.
jerkface11
Member
Well what do you know after years of being out of stock no back order midway has some. If you want one you better buy the brass now.
Lloyd Smale
Member
good luck shoving jacketed bullets through that lee sizer. Its designed to size lead bullets not jacketed.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked