My Missouri Bullet Company 300 gr. lead .452" bullets (which have a Brinnell Hardness Number of 18) when loaded over 28.0 gr of W 296 to a velocity of about 1430 fps keyhole into the target at a distance of 10 yards or more. This amount of W 296 powder is 3.0 gr over the Max listed in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, but it is the same load at which my 300 gr. lead Beartooth bullets which have a BHN of 21and have gas-checks perform very well, and I think I got that loading from the Beartooth LoadSwap webpage, but it is not operating now so I cannot confirm that. I am guessing that the velocity is too much for the hardness of the bullets without gas-checks, stripping the lead instead of imparting the necessary spin required to stabilize them. Unfortunately I loaded 100 rounds before testing them, and I would rather not pull all of those bullets. Any thoughts or insights would be most appreciated! Dogman 45
454 bullets keyhole
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tightgroup tiger
Member
Do you have a backing behind your target? If it is hanging loose it will look like they are key holing whether they are or not.
Is your barrel leaded up, If your driving the bullets to fast and are distorting the bullet base or they are stripping in the riflings their will be leading in your barrel that you can't miss.
I find it hard to believe the bullets are key holing.
Is your barrel leaded up, If your driving the bullets to fast and are distorting the bullet base or they are stripping in the riflings their will be leading in your barrel that you can't miss.
I find it hard to believe the bullets are key holing.
FROGO207
Member
Even though they are stated as .452 have you measured any? Or measured any of the others? Do either of them rub as they go through the chamber throats or do they drop through freely. Might be as simple as gas checks but I doubt it. I am thinking diameter of throat too small and non gas checked bullet is not bumping up to catch the rifling well. A gas checked or jacketed bullet is less dependant on bullet fit for accuracy.
DocRock
member
That load is too much for plain base bullets, in my opinion. .452" may be small and BHN18 is hard, which is a bad combination. Add gas cutting for poor stabilization . Have you slugged your bore? I shoot .454" boolits in my Casull carbine and .454" boolits in 45LC for any alloy harder than BHN10. If they are slightly undersized, you may get away with a light load - something like 5.5 grs Titegroup, or 9 grs HS-6, or a case full of TB (non-compressed), with a .454" card wad stuck to the bullet base with a dab of lube.
twistytorn
Member
Lead bullet issues usually come from fit issues. Check your bullet dimensions against your throats and bore. Gas checks can cover up some sins here.
As Murf asked--any lead? If you can recover a bullet, you can see if there's evidence of gas cutting on the base. You may also see if there's evidence that the rifling stripped the lead bullet. Both will leave lead in the bore.
As Murf asked--any lead? If you can recover a bullet, you can see if there's evidence of gas cutting on the base. You may also see if there's evidence that the rifling stripped the lead bullet. Both will leave lead in the bore.
Obturation
Member
I've had goodluck with plain lead bullets in 454 up to a point, I've driven coated harder with no issue. If they're keyholing something a up. Check your bore , maybe reduce your load and see what it's doing. I can't say that I've noticed tumbling from excessive velocity , just leading. Hardness is secondary to proper diameter, you can get away with a lot if the bullet fits right.
sparkyv
Member
Are you using the coated pills? I regularly run the MBC 300gr coated 18 BHN Silhouette bullet over 35.0gr H110 in the 460S&W with no issue (no chrony data yet). Very accurate, no keyholing out to 50yds, so far.
Thank you all for your informative comments and suggestions!
To reply to your points: My targets consist of orange dots stuck to paper picnic plates which are stapled to a plywood backstop; the stiff paper is not tearing. Behind the plywood I have layered large sections of tree trunks, four feet high and six feet deep to stop any bullets from penetrating (I have a lot of large downed trees to work with.) Unfortunately that makes recovering the bullets almost impossible--38s can easily be found lying around but the 454s don't bounce off! There is no visible leading in the barrel upon inspection with a bore light. My Missouri Bullet Company bullets are Silhouettes, and they are coated, but I had not measured them until today. They measure .451" instead of the .452 posted on the box, but they cannot be pushed through the chamber throats or the forcing cone of my Freedom Arms revolver by thumb pressure.
I will pull the bullets and try a lighter load, and thanks again guys for all your help!
To reply to your points: My targets consist of orange dots stuck to paper picnic plates which are stapled to a plywood backstop; the stiff paper is not tearing. Behind the plywood I have layered large sections of tree trunks, four feet high and six feet deep to stop any bullets from penetrating (I have a lot of large downed trees to work with.) Unfortunately that makes recovering the bullets almost impossible--38s can easily be found lying around but the 454s don't bounce off! There is no visible leading in the barrel upon inspection with a bore light. My Missouri Bullet Company bullets are Silhouettes, and they are coated, but I had not measured them until today. They measure .451" instead of the .452 posted on the box, but they cannot be pushed through the chamber throats or the forcing cone of my Freedom Arms revolver by thumb pressure.
I will pull the bullets and try a lighter load, and thanks again guys for all your help!
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Right, but what does your barrel slug at?
If the forcing cone is small and the barrel bore larger, there may be fitting problems.
The bullets mag be swaged down too small to grab rifling well, resulting in key holing, while also not leading because of the coating.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I've heard of plenty of bullets key holing at 25 to 50 yards but not at 10 yards. How do they have time to key hole? No leading, Like I asked in post #2 , that is really strange.
That may be the case here.
That fits with Demi-Human's post.
This is starting to add up. Sounds like the throats in your Freedom Arms revolver need reamed out a little.
That may be the case here.
That fits with Demi-Human's post.
This is starting to add up. Sounds like the throats in your Freedom Arms revolver need reamed out a little.
Ohen Cepel
Member
I would get the loads back below the max before I messed with the throats on a FA revolver. Many of the above things I would address before I messed with the gun. I think you're simply pushing a non-gas checked bullet too hard.
Obturation
Member
My FA m83 is dimensionally correct, my ruger SRH has tight throats . my ruger had a bore that slugged .448 but it had other barrel issues too and the barrel was replaced by ruger, replacement barrel is dimensionally better but the throats are now a couple thousandth smaller than the bore. Still shoots well but it will lead a little. I need to have the throats reamed, it's on my looooong list of things to do.
DocRock
member
Those bullets are too hard and too small. Light loads might work better, but it's going to be tough to get accuracy with them. Best of luck.
Sorry it has taken an extra day to get back to all of you on this! I have never had the barrel properly slugged, but my micrometer measures the chamber throats to be .449 and the bore to be .450 (as best I can measure them.) The Beartooth bullets with gas checks that perform most admirably measure .4515. The Missouri Bullet Company bullets that sometimes keyhole also measure .4515 when I measure them as carefully as I can. The head of the micrometer is too wide to measure the forcing cone. The crimps on the loaded rounds have proven too tight to pull the bullets, so I will shoot those up at targets, use the rest of those bullets in my 45, buy different bullets for the 454, and reduce the powder charge. When I called Missouri Bullet Company to ask them for a possible explanation, they told me to check out the forums on the internet. I didn't appreciate that answer at the time, but I certainly do now--Thank You all again for your expertise and concern for my problem. You have been great! Dogman 45
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