454 Casull -- Barrel Length vs Velocity

[Mr.Revolverguy]

For those that love recoil what could be more rewarding than spending a day on the range with a handgun cartridge that reminds you every time you touch one off that you are alive? Or for us Marines the eiry feeling of a hand grenade going off just outside of the killzone radius, but close enough to remind you to be alert. According to SAAMI the pressure for the 454 Casull which requires a small rifle primer for ignition are similar to that of the 300 Weatherby Magnum rifle cartridge. Finally getting a chance to test the effects of barrel length on the velocity of the 454 Casull is something I have always wanted to do.
Chronograph Data Here

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm surprised you're hitting some of those numbers. Just out of curiosity, is your chronographed calibrated? Because I've found the Hornady factory loads to hover at or just below advertised velocity from my 7.5" SRH.

The Alaskan is neat, but it should have had a 4"-5" tube, IMO. I might have bought one if they did.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I have the Toklat.. and I don't use max .454s. Don't need 'em.

All you need is for the round to shoot through the critter. Once it has left the other side the excess energy is just wasted.

Deaf

 

[TruthTellers]

I have the Toklat.. and I don't use max .454s. Don't need 'em.

All you need is for the round to shoot through the critter. Once it has left the other side the excess energy is just wasted.

Deaf

So you're advocating the .45 Colt is a superior cartridge?

 

[Deaf Smith]

So you're advocating the .45 Colt is a superior cartridge?

Superior on my hand for 99 percent of my shooting.

Deaf

 

[jerkface11]

I'm shocked it didn't lose more velocity than that. You should run the same test with .45 colt cowboy loads out of the same guns.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

jerface11,

That is not a bad idea, time permitting I may just do that.

I have completed the same test with 10MM but with 5 different firearms, so much data I am trying to get it organized before posting it.

The one thing test like these have done for me is make me realize that even short barreled revolvers and pistols with the right ammo still carry plenty of energy. I have always carried a snub nose 38 of some variant and I have never felt unprepared for urban encounters.

Of course it is about carrying the right firearm for the right situation.

 

[CraigC]

So you're advocating the .45 Colt is a superior cartridge?

Perhaps, depending on application. All the .454 really gains you is range and there are very few capable of taking advantage of it.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I once spoke to Randy Garrett about why he did not load for the .454 Casull. His response was that it was not necessary because a properly loaded .44Mag was sufficient. I think that reasoning could be applied to a hot loaded .45Colt. CraigC probably has the the best answer for why using .454 Casull ammunition could be an advantage.

 

[SDGlock23]

I've compared some 454 handloads out of my 5" Toklat vs the 8.125" BFR and on a few occasions the velocity difference was not that much, even once with AA9 (forget the bullet weight) the Toklat actually averaged faster by a small bit.

I didn't compare all handloads simply because I don't typically run full house 454 from the Toklat, I leave those for the bigger, heavier BFR.

 

[joem1945]

Try the .460 Mag. That gun lets you know you pulled the trigger. I tried some .45 colt in it which was unremarkable and not all that accurate anyway.

 

[MaxP]

I once spoke to Randy Garrett about why he did not load for the .454 Casull. His response was that it was not necessary because a properly loaded .44Mag was sufficient.

Yeah, Randy Garrett was a big fan of the .44 Magnum. Ironically, the new owner of Garrett Cartridges, Ashley Emerson, just released both .45 Colt + P loads and .454 Casull loads. Both of which I have tried -- one of the .45 Colt loads I have hunted with, and have found to be of the same high quality as the Garrett .44 Mag loads.


I have found that the .454 Casull is one of the least barrel-length sensitive revolver cartridges available. It pressures up very quickly.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Try the .460 Mag. That gun lets you know you pulled the trigger. I tried some .45 colt in it which was unremarkable and not all that accurate anyway.

I've heard this before, and am a bit surprised by it. I don't know if I just got a particularly good 460V or what, but mine shoots 460, 454, and 45 Colt all very accurately. The POI simply moves up or down for me based on the cartridge or bullet weight I'm shooting, but windage remains the same witj all three, and seems to hit where I point it. Of course, I'm no great shooter either, going for long range shots. Maybe I'd notice it then.

Too bad some folks are having bad luck with 45 Colts out of their 460's, because it really is fun. I bought it to shoot 460's though, so......

 

[MaxP]

I have yet to meet a .460 X-frame that will shoot .45 Colt and/or .454 with any reasonable accuracy, and I'm talking out to ranges past 25 yards. There's just too much of a jump for the bullet to make. See the photo I just snapped of a .460 next to a .45 Colt.

Not doubting your results, but at what ranges have you shot the .45 Colt and .454 ammo out of your .460?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've shot it out to 50 yards with 45 colts and hit my target, and 70 yards with 454 Casulls. Though that was shooting at 2 liter bottles, not going for a group on paper, so like I said, maybe I just haven't noticed the accuracy loss without truly measuring the spread. I've shot out to 120 yards with 460's, and I'm ashamed to say that It took me 4 tries to hit it. That's shooting iron sites though, and my eyes are not that great.

Sorry for the thread drift. Back to the 454.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Yeah, Randy Garrett was a big fan of the .44 Magnum. Ironically, the new owner of Garrett Cartridges, Ashley Emerson, just released both .45 Colt + P loads and .454 Casull loads. Both of which I have tried -- one of the .45 Colt loads I have hunted with, and have found to be of the same high quality as the Garrett .44 Mag loads.

I have found that the .454 Casull is one of the least barrel-length sensitive revolver cartridges available. It pressures up very quickly.

What is your opinion of the barrel-length sensitivity of the .454 Casull compared to the .44 Mag?

 

[MaxP]

IMO, the .44 is considerably more sensitive to barrel length than the .454. Lower pressure round that doesn't "ramp up" like the .454 does. The .454 is a nasty piece of work!

 

[Nom de Forum]

IMO, the .44 is considerably more sensitive to barrel length than the .454. Lower pressure round that doesn't "ramp up" like the .454 does. The .454 is a nasty piece of work!

Does that have any significance in the practical usage of either cartridge in a revolvers other than something like the very short barreled Ruger Alaskan?

 

[buck460XVR]

I have found that the .454 Casull is one of the least barrel-length sensitive revolver cartridges available. It pressures up very quickly.

The numbers from the 16'' Rossi don't mirror this as it's longer barrel along with the 8'' X-Frame all showed very significant gains. In most tests shown, even just the extra 6'' of the X-Frame showed a 20-25% increase in velocity, even tho the bullet had to "jump" to the throats in the X-Frame as compared to the Alaskan. There may be other factors here too tho that figure in to this besides barrel length.

 

[CraigC]

Of course a rifle is going to yield higher velocities. Remove the barrel/cylinder gap and double the length, you bet it's going to run faster. That's tangent to the point.

 

[buck460XVR]

Of course a rifle is going to yield higher velocities. Remove the barrel/cylinder gap and double the length, you bet it's going to run faster. That's tangent to the point.

You must of missed the part about the 8'' barrel, eh?

along with the 8'' X-Frame all showed very significant gains. In most tests shown, even just the extra 6'' of the X-Frame showed a 20-25% increase in velocity, even tho the bullet had to "jump" to the throats in the X-Frame as compared to the Alaskan

 

[MaxP]

Are we talking .460 Smith now or .454 Casull?

 

[buck460XVR]

Are we talking .460 Smith now or .454 Casull?

If you read the article in the link, you would have read that the OP was shooting .454 ammo outta a 8'' .460 X-Frame and comparing it to his Ruger Alaskan. Same ammo, different guns with different barrel lengths.

 

[MaxP]

If you read the article in the link, you would have read that the OP was shooting .454 ammo outta a 8'' .460 X-Frame and comparing it to his Ruger Alaskan. Same ammo, different guns with different barrel lengths.
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I did. Back to reality. Having shot quite a bit of factory fodder through longer barreled .454s as well as Alaskans, the loss is not what you would see in other calibers. That long freebore probably isn't helping any.

 

[buck460XVR]

I did, however you brought in your Rossi and 8-inch X-frame.

I don't own a Rossi in .454 nor a 8'' X-Frame. BUT, the OP did test .454 ammo out of his in the article. It was HE that brought them in, not me.