45acp Plated Bullet Issue

[Lerk]

So picked up some 185gr Berry's plated HBRN bullets to try in my 45acp 1911. Running them on my Hornady LNL AP with 6.0gr of Unique in Speer brass. But I have an issue I cannot fix. Everytime I put a bullet in it, I end up with plate seperation on the sides where the case is pushing it. No matter how big I go with the mouth expander, it still does it. I believe it is because I am seating and crimping in one stage currently. Does that sound right? I have tried moving the seating and crimping around but I can't seem to get it to work out. Any ideas? I didn't really want to get a seperate seating and crimping die but I can if there isn't another solution.

On another note I have did this same load, but with a Nosler 230gr sporting handgun bullet but did not have any issues with jacket seperation on that load.

 

[LiveLife]

AFAIK, Berry's offers HBRN in 185 gr but not in 200 gr - http://www.berrysmfg.com/products-c17-45_Cal_.452.aspx


As to the amount of crimp, this is what Berry's MFG recommends.

FAQ: Is separation a problem with Plated Bullets?
Separation is very rare. Two things can cause a jacket to separate from the lead core: excessive speeds (magnum velocities) and a real tight roll crimp (cuts through the plating). If you'll keep these two items in check you shouldn't have a problem with bullet separation.

My guess is that you are using too much crimp and cutting into the plating. I use .021" added to the diameter of the bullet, so for .452" sized Berry's plated bullet, I use .473" taper crimp which will return the flare flat and perhaps add very slight taper crimp depending on the thickness of the case wall.

I am seating and crimping in one stage currently ... Everytime I put a bullet in it, I end up with plate seperation on the sides where the case is pushing it

I also seat and taper crimp in the same step (Lee dies) and I do not have the same issue. I think you are using too much crimp and cutting into the side of the bullet while you are seating the bullet. I would back off on the taper crimp and recheck that it is no more than .473".

On another note I have did this same load, but with a Nosler 230gr sporting handgun bullet but did not have any issues with jacket seperation on that load.

Copper plating on plated bullets are around the thickness of paper. You didn't have the same issue with loading jacketed bullet because the copper jacketing is much thicker.

Here's Berry's 185 gr HBRN loaded with .473" taper crimp (on the right) next to a factory 230 gr FMJ (on the left). When I pull the bullet, I will barely see a taper crimp mark or no mark on the bullet's plating.

 

[Lerk]

bds- You are right, they are 185gr HBRN, I'll go fix that in my first post, typing got ahead of my thinking.

I did back my crimping all the way off and just seated the bullet, but I still had the same issue with it cutting into the plating. They are RCBS dies just to note, but that shouldn't make any difference.

 

[LiveLife]

I also use RCBS combination bullet seating/taper crimp die and don't have the same issue.

I would recheck the die settings to make sure the taper crimp is no more than .473".

What's measurement at the case neck/mouth of your loaded round?

 

[Lerk]

I'm getting .4705" at the crimp and .471" for the rest case neck.

 

[LiveLife]

No wonder - You are applying too much crimp and cutting into the plating during bullet seating.

Adjust your seating/taper crimp die so the taper crimp is .473" and you shouldn't be shaving the plating.

 

[Lerk]

Just tested it, I start shaving plating at .4745". There is about a +/-.002" varience between some of my bullets also. But even with trying out a bullet on the low end of the tolerence and one at the high, both of them still shaved at .4745".

Edit: I think it might be the bullets as I dig deeper into the box the varience on them starts to shift. I tried some at the bottom and I do not shave plating until I hit .471". So at .473" they look good. I have to sort the bullets and do a drop test on them to see where I have to set the OAL and crimp for the bullets that shave at .4745" but I'm thinking I should be able to make them work.

 

[LiveLife]

Sounds good.

FYI, I also have noticed slight out-of-round measurements of .001"-.002" with some of the 185 gr HBRN but that maybe due to the large area of hollow base and rough shipping/handling - still, applying .473" taper crimp allows the loaded rounds to fall in freely into my tight chambered Sig 1911 barrel.

 

[Lerk]

Eh, this might be a bit of an activity for finding an OAL and crimp that will work, these bullets do vary a lot. And yes my concentricity is pretty similar to that as well.

A question, anything I should worry about if I wanted to shoot the bullets that the plating was shaved on? Any risk of the plating seperating? Not concerned with accuracy, these are just some plinkers.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

If they are giving you that much trouble I would back the crimp off completely until you have them all loaded. Then take all of your dies leaving only the seating/crimping die. Back the seater plug out just about all the way and then set the die to put a slight crimp on them just to remove the flare on the case mouth. I've had to do this with Berry's bullets before. No amount of fiddling with the dies would result in a seated and lightly crimp round. If the plating/lead gets too damaged or if you don't take the flare off of the case mouths, it can result in ammo that won't chamber if your gun has a tight chamber.

 

[Walkalong]

I have not had that problem with them. I am crimping in a second step, but even crimping in the same step should not do it unless the crimp is excessive.

The only plated bullet I have had that problem with was another brand. I had to flare more for them. They shot great, but for some reason the jacket would fold up if the case did not have enough flare. I figured it was a bad batch because I have had no other bullet from this maker do it. The good news is they shot great.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have not had any problems with the Berry's. I load on a LNL-AP using Hornady dies and the PTX. I do crimp as a separate step, station 5.