.45ACP - Questions/Help

[Werewolf]

I've been reloading for a while but have never reloaded .45ACP before. So I've got a couple of questions before I start and I know you guys will have the answers. I'll be shooting the .45ACP out of a Sig P220 if that matters.

I'll be using Federal brass, 230gr FMJ bullets and Federal 150 Primers. I'd like a load that duplicates military ball as closely as possible. I understand that military ball uses Bullseye (at least that's what I've read). I pretty much use Titegroup or HP38 for all my reloading.

So...

1) I think Titegroup is pretty close to Bullseye. What would be a load that pretty much duplicates military ball performance.

2) All my experience reloading is with rounds that use a tapered crimp. The 45ACP does not use a tapered crimp. I'll by using a Lee Factory Crimp die. How much crimp does a 45ACP need and how do I know that I've done it right?

 

[stans]

I have never used Titegroup, so I can't comment on that powder. Supposedly the military used non-canister grade powder that was the equivalent of Bullseye, at least up to sometime prior to World War II.

As for crimp, the 45 ACP requires a taper crimp, not a roll crimp like that used on revolver rounds. All you really want to do is remove the belling from the case mouth. Once crimped, the case mouth should measure somewhere between 0.470" and 0.472". The taper crimp does not hold the bullet in place, that is the job of case tension. The crimp just ensures reliable feeding.

 

[Werewolf]

Geez! What a dummy I am. Getting Roll and Taper crimp mixed up. :banghead: Thanks for the correction - revolver is all I've reloaded for and never paid much attention to the terminology.

Thanks for the info on the crimp. Much appreciated.

 

[Ala Dan]

A lot of people separate the seating and taper
crimp into two totally different operations. In
other words, they seat with the bullet seating die,
and then taper crimp with the taper crimp die.

Keep in mind, the the Lee FCD does not seat
the bullet!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Jim Watson]

I have been chronographing loads with Titegroup for use when my keg of 452AA runs out.
230 gr Remington bulk FMJ @ 1.265" + 4.7 grains Titegroup = 804 fps
That is only a tenth of a grain below Hodgdon maximum, which they rate at 818 fps for 4.8 grains of Titegroup and a 230 Hornady FMJFP.
If you want 850 fps, you will likely have to use another powder.
Hogdon shows the 230 Hdy FP at 832 fps for 5.3 grains of HP38 MAXIMUM.
I will settle for 800 fps for my practice hardball because Titegroup does well with the 200 gr SWC that is my IDPA bullet.

I adjust the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die by running a loaded round into the die, screwing the knob down until the taper sleeve hits the case mouth, backing the round out to free the adjustment and screwing it down half to 3/4 turn for jacketed and a full turn for cast.

 

[rick_reno]

.45 acp

Bill Wilson in his book "The Combat Auto" recommends .469 for a crimp on the 45 acp. I sometimes shoot a SIG P220, it's pretty forgiving on the crimp, but some tight chambered 1911's will have problems with crimps over .470. I'd suggest getting a case gage (Wilson or Dillon), generally if the round will drop into the case gage it'll feed fine in your gun. The previously mentioned Lee Carbide Crimp die is a really good thing to have.

 

[Werewolf]

Could someone explain to me the max load criteria. SAAMI specs for .45ACP are I believe up around 20K whereas the max loads for the Hodgon powders I have TG and HP38 are around 16.7K.

Why would upping the load by .1 or .2 grains cause a problem.

Some of the Accurate powders go all the way up to 18.5K...

So far I've never exceeded a max load (though I could easily with my Ruger's) but this has always bewildered me.

Does it maybe have something to do with the time pressure curve shape?

One wants to know....

 

[Jim Watson]

The SAAMI spec for .45ACP is 21,000 psi maximum. Measured on a piezo transducer. Hodgdon still shows .45 ACP pressure in CUP with a maximum of 19,900. Copper Units of Pressure in a crusher gun. They are not interchangeable.

I don't know why Hodgdon doesn't run pressures to the limit so as to squeeze out the last foot per second. But I find it best treat a published maximum load as my maxumum. You can sometimes go shopping for contradictory load data, but there is rarely anything real to gain. I did so as to load 9mm factory equivalents with 231 but have changed powders since.

If you want more power, I have found Accurate No 2 Improved to give higher velocity than the AA book shows. I got 869 fps for a 230 gr FMJ and 5.5 grains of AA #2 and that is the STARTING load. Slower burning powders are often recommended but the ones I have tried start giving less uniform velocity.

 

[WESHOOT2]

'Ball'

Bullseye 84.

Highly recommend Alliant Power Pistol for higher-powered 45 ACP.
And at least one other (I trust) has great results accuracy-wise using it.........

 

[dodgestdshift]

Werewolf:

Back to the crimp. I don't own or have never used a Sig so this might not work for your gun. It works for my Colt Gov't model.

Remove the barrel from the gun, and drop the finished cartridge into the chamber. The cartridge should go all the way into the chamber by its own weight, or a little push. If it does it should feed. Take the cartridge and push the bullet onto a flat surface, the bullet should not move into the case. Note - this will test sizing and maybe belling not crimp. Next try with hand strength to twist the bullet in the case, it should not move. If it does, you probably have too much crimp. Too much crimp can also cause the drop into chamber test to fail also. If the cartridge passes these three test you can be 90% certain the case will feed properly.

Remember I don't know if you can do this on your Sig (test #1) but the press and twist should work.

 

[Gary H]

I don't know why Hodgdon doesn't run pressures to the limit so as to squeeze out the last foot per second.

For the same reason that words are written on your rear view mirror and visor.

 

[Powderman]

To duplicate ball ammo, I usually turn to Alliant Power Pistol. I like 6.3 grains to 6.5 under a 230 grain mil surp bullet, crimped to .470. This is WAY below the max, but trust me on this one--you don't even want to go anywhere NEAR the max load with this powder!!

I have also used Clays to load ball ammo. My 25 yard load is the published max, 4.0 grains. My 50 yard load is above that, so I won't post it.