460 or super 45

[Fire8523]

Hello all
I currently have a para 1911 that when I got I gutted and put all Wilson combat bullet proof springs pins in. I'm very interested in the 460 rowland but the conversion is rather expensive. I understand I could ream the barrel but I can't find a rental. My question is with the 45 super and a muzzle comp from Wilson combat and a heavier recoil spring will it take the pressure off the frame? And with a comp on the end do I need to run a 22 or 24 or will a lower recoil spring do just fine? And also is there a need for shock buffs as well? Thanks

 

[el Godfather]

Check wc hunter specs. Talk to boys at wc and Rowland.

 

[hentown]

On a 1911, you'll probably want a stronger firing pin spring, also.

I've shot some .45 Super and .450 smc through a G21, using a threaded, compensated barrel. The compensator does mitigate recoil and muzzle flip, but there's still more recoil than with standard .45acp.

I've also fired over 10k .400 Cor-Bons and over 3k .40 Supers through my G21s, again, using threaded, compensated barrels.

AS I said in another thread, .45 Super just doesn't interest me. Terrible for s.d. No fun at the range, etc.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Why would .45 super be terrible for self defense?

 

[dprice3844444]

you start making all this fancy exotic stuff for sd,lawyer might hang you out to dry if accidental d/c or shooting. for sd,keep it simple

 

[SDGlock23]

Can't say too much about the 460 Rowland, it's a good cartridge but it's not really needed, but nothing really wrong with it either. I happen to really like the .45 Super, it's a cartridge that makes great sense. The Super can cover anything from just above .45 ACP +P to 460R ballistics.

There are basically two categories of bullets, .45 ACP bullets and .45 Colt bullets. With the ACP bullets, you can drive some of them faster without issue, but others won't hold up so well. Most of your 200-230gr bullets really don't great much past 1300 fps, very doable in the Super. The 185gr XTP is pretty tough, despite its low sectional density, it holds up great to around 1450 fps, which happens to be the velocity Hornady rates the bullet (they rate their 200 and 230 XTP to 1250 fps). I've driven the 185gr to 1600 fps in a 5" G21 KKM barrel and the .45 Super which is a little too fast really.

I happen to love that heavier .45 Colt bullets work very well in the Super. The 250gr Gold Dot is a GREAT self defense load, loaded to around 1,150 fps it expands huge. For hunting, a 250gr XTP at 1,300 fps will do the trick on most 4 legged critters out there. I've even played with 275-300gr hardcasts since at heart I love big bore single actions. FWIW, the 275's run around 1,200 fps and the 300gr around 1100-1150, which is pretty impressive from a Glock (or any semi auto). At those levels you need a comp, but if you keep the .45 ACP bullets at 1200 or below you should be okay without one, 185's maybe 1300 fps.

Just my thoughts, I've done a lot of loading for the Super and it's a fantastic cartridge.

 

[Fire8523]

Thanks everyone
I currently run the bullet proof setup from Wilson combat for the firing pin and spring. I'm going to buy there recoil system with the stainless guide rod shock buffer and spring but will order a heavy spring. So I need 28 not 24? I just thought with all of that and a comp that it deff would reduce the wear on the slide. Also someone else on my other post mentioned using a smaller primer to reduce primer blow? Can you fill me in on that. Also do you need super brass if u run them not so hot

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I would run the highest recoil spring that will cycle the slide with the comp on there. A buffer is also not a bad idea as long as it doesn't cause any problems.

460 rowland runs a pressure of 40k psi super is 28k and ACP is 21k. Now you can push ACP all the way to 40k one of the members on the forum did testing on 45 acp brass and it showed no problems. Starline makes great brass and the 45 super and 460 rowland are the same piece of brass the super is just cut down more. U can load them to the same pressure levels without problems. The reason the 460 rowland is a tad longer is just to keep you from put 460 rowland in a stock gun.

I wouldn't think your primers wouldn't have any problems sealing the biggest issue I have seen with primers leaking is when people run magnum primer and low PSI and erode the breechface,

 

[Fire8523]

Ok so 45 acp brass in a supported barrel should be fine? What about federal +p brass that is nickel plated for strength? And the 460 brass would need trimmed? I see Wilson combat has 24 pound recoil springs and main springs I'll see what wolf has if you think I should go higher.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I didn't do the testing and I don't remember the member here that did but he claimed the 45 acp brass would be fine, tho I can not say. I will tell you the 45 super brass would be fine and that way you don't have to trim the brass or ream the chamber.

Its hard to say what you need for a recoil spring, you are probably gonna need a tuner pack say 20 to 24. Depending on what loads your running and how good your comp works. I know winchester has Autocomp which is made for guns with comps might be a good place to start for powder.

Running underwood ammo should make your 1911 comparable to a 44mag. A 230gr gold dot doing 1400fps/1000lbs energy is going to do some damage. Wish there was some ballistic testing out there on 460 rowland.

 

[Fire8523]

I'll try the underwood ammo out and see how it performs . Thanks for the input and I'll grab some federal plated +p brass to work up in loads

 

[hentown]

Why would .45 super be terrible for self defense?
__________________

My opinion has nothing to do with fear of litigation. I just don't believe that a heavily-recoiling round that produces a great deal more power, penetration, etc., than would be needed for s.d. purposes is not a good round.

Follow-up shots are not as quick as with "normal" rounds. Also, there's always the possibility that slide speed will be so fast (this would be exacerbated by recoil spring deterioration) that the slide wouldn't pick up a round from the mag.

I'd have the same opinion about 10mm nuclear loads, using a .50 bmg for home defense, etc.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Ya I could see if your follow up shots were not as fast then going with a less powerful round 2 on target is better than one. I've shot both and for me the follow up is the same and like with any round you have to run a lot through ur gun before you carry it to make sure there's not any problems like not picking up a round or feeding problems.

 

[Fire8523]

I'm not looking to use it as self defense just to shoot and maybe have in the woods while checking cameras or something I have others for sd that I carry just something to play around with. Thanks everyone for your response

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Well if you don't mind revolvers there always the 460 S&W

Sure to be a hand cannon

Caliber: 460 S&W Magnum
Bullet Weight: 240 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 2000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 2132 ft. lbs

 

[Triggerf16]

If you are building a 45 Super on a 1911, then I would add that the most important component is a square firing pin stop. This will slow the slide velocity, and not cause high slide velocity on closing like a heavy recoil spring will.

A square FPS, a heavy mainspring, a 24 lb recoil spring, and you will be well set for 45 Super.