5.45x39 rifle?s

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robert garner

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It seems that the Russian 22 is the only centerfire rifle I can afford my boy to shoot, are there ANY accurate rifles available? sorry for not showing proper respect for the ak-74, but an accurate rifle it isn't!
robert
 
There are AR uppers for that chambering, and MSAR is coming out with an E-4 in it sometime next month (or so I was told by Dave).

:)
 
Do you really need different mags for the M&P-15R? There is not a lot of info out there, but some have said you can use a standard aluminum GI AR-15 magazine with a normal follower but only can load it to 27 rds.
 
Don't expect the 5.54 Russian made ammo to be 'accurate'.....from what I have seen, it is not!

Cheap it is, accurate out of most AK's it isn't, it may do much better out of an AR, but I hear it isn't the most accurate stuff anyways.
 
I wish H&R or Rossi, or one of the other cheap single-shot rifle makers would make a rifle in 5.45. It would be a fun cheap plinker to go with the cheap ammo. Plus it would be a lot easier to clean up after the corrosive stuff.
 
but an accurate rifle it isn't!
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What type of shooting do you intend on doing? A good AK can shoot better than most people can shoot it offhand, especially if you are moving. At the range at least, when I actually see people shooting, On the internet everyone is Annie Oakley. If you are going to be shooting from a bench, a Marlin XL7 or whatever bolt action rifle is on sale at your local big box store ought to be as cheap as an unconverted saiga in 5.45.
 
5.45 is plenty accurate out of a good rifle and a decent shooter. Don't let the haters of everything not invented in America chase you away from a fine little caliber. There was a post on this board not too long ago where a guy bought a new lancaster arms ak-74 and was getting 2 inch groups at 50 yards from a bench, which is a more realistic picture of how accurate an ak-74 is. And an unconverted saiga in that caliber sounds very interesting considering how accurate their other sporting rifles are. The main problem with AK rifles is their sights, not any mechanical flaw.
 
What are you teaching your boy to do with a rifle? Bench-rest type plinking? Field positions? "Practical/Tactical" shooting?

A Kalashnikov is not an easy rifle to shoot very well off the bench. It can be done but it takes some finagling. If just bench-rest plinking for tight groups, you should probably get a traditional bolt-action rifle, and, even if any do come in 5.45x39 (and I've never heard of any) you might as well pick a more common caliber.

If you're practicing using field positions and/or shooting from cover, on the move, and other "practical" techniques, an AK-74 can be quite rewarding. I have had no trouble connecting with a silhouette gong on our range at almost 200 yds, offhand. (Actually, weak-side offhand.) If that's the style of shooting you want him to learn then an AK might be perfectly reasonable. The fundamentals will always be the same, and the guns are generally more accurate than the shooters anyway.

Dollar-for-dollar, you can get a lot more trigger time out of an AK-74 than almost any other centerfire rifle. How valuable/instructive that trigger time will be is limited by your teaching and his patience ... not the gun and ammo.
 
I have a S&W AR in 5.45 and love it. It is very accurate.

41magsnub - Do you really need different mags for the M&P-15R? There is not a lot of info out there, but some have said you can use a standard aluminum GI AR-15 magazine with a normal follower but only can load it to 27 rds.
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I use standard 5.56 AR mags and they work just fine in my 5.45. As you said, you can only load 27 or 28 rounds.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I don't consider 4MOA all that good.
Correct;We are limited to 500 yds. 4MOA @ 500 = MISS
a high incidence if misses would just create frustration. After he has managed the basics, and developed an appreciation of
what a rifle can do, and the mayhem it is capable of mis-handled,he
can go on to tactical usage.
Unless H&R comes out with one we will just use some thing else, I was hoping for
a light recoiling, inexspensive,way to put several thousand rounds down range.
robert
 
First of all, if you miss at 500 yards, then you are probably just part of that 50% of the population that can't shoot that far. Secondly, if you miss with the AK74 at 500 yards, then you are probably part of the 90% that cannot articulate the issue sights at that range. Thirdly, you may have a gun with a partially shot-out barrel. And lastly, factors such as wind, trajectory, ammunition consistency,etc are now wacking your 52gr bullet. My AK-74 will print 2-3 minutes @100, but wind and such start to play with it at longer ranges. I have a gun built from a new parts set, and the barrel is great. The AK74 needs optics to tell you just how good it is, and to let the shooter do his part.
 
I think I'd be out on running corrosive ammo in an AR. Cleaning issues would not be enjoyable to me.
 
My AK74 with 6x posp scope put 75 rounds of 7n6 into 8 inches at 300 yds from the bench. No B.S. With the iron sights I can't even see the target at that range much less reliably hit anything. The same rifle and scope will easily do 1/2" groups at 50 yds.

Im pretty sure the gun would have done better with a bipod. A 500 yd target gun it is not, but with decent optics a '74 might really suprise you.
 
Unless H&R comes out with one we will just use some thing else, I was hoping for
a light recoiling, inexspensive,way to put several thousand rounds down range.
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If you're serious about shooting out to 500 yards, you're just going to have to save up money. Cheap ammo of any caliber isn't going to cut it.

For out to 50 yards, a pistol caliber carbine in 9mm would allow you to possibly find steel-cased ammo for about $180 per 1000 shots. Out to maybe 150-200, steel-cased .223 is about $220 per 1000 shots.

But for any caliber that can accurately reach out to 300 yards and beyond, budget 50 cents per shot. Or start handloading.
 
Thanks all

Guess we'll just go with a AR,I don't have a problem with hitting @ 500, the trick was to train the boy to do so, the russki ammo prices were so inviting!
robert
 
Given identical rifles, it would be interesting to shoot either the AR paltform OR the AK platform with .223 and 5.45 side by side, and see the results of training and shooting at 500 yards. Outside of specialty loading, I think the results of both cartridges would be similar. The cartridge chosen is more limited by the gun than the consistency & quality of bulk ammo (IMO).
 
5.45 is plenty accurate out of a good rifle and a decent shooter. Don't let the haters of everything not invented in America chase you away from a fine little caliber. There was a post on this board not too long ago where a guy bought a new lancaster arms ak-74 and was getting 2 inch groups at 50 yards from a bench, which is a more realistic picture of how accurate an ak-74 is. And an unconverted saiga in that caliber sounds very interesting considering how accurate their other sporting rifles are. The main problem with AK rifles is their sights, not any mechanical flaw.
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^^^ and that guys must be me. but i wasn't resting in sand bags, i was shooting off-hards sitting at the bench....

^ I don't know about you guys, but I don't consider 4MOA all that good.
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4moa is terrible for a match shooter who seek 0.5moa or less at 100 yards with his $1500 rifle setup and expensive ammo , but on the other hand, these same 4-moa are awesome for a shooter who bought a cheap AK74 shooting offhard from a bench.
 
My 2 cents:

My Arsenal Bulgarian SLR-105 will shoot 2 MOA from a rest with Barnaul 60 fmj.

My Saiga (sold--unconverted) with a 3x scope would shoot both the Barnaul and WASP ammo into SUB 1.5 MOA groups with no trouble.

Sorry, no pix. The rifle is gone, and the targets have been thrown away.

If you are concerned about cash outlay, get the Russian Saiga in 5.45 and stock up on commercial and surplus ammo. IMO, the Saiga 5.45 is the best value on the market, shoots some of the cheapest ammo, and is the most accurate Kalashnikov chambering to-date.

m1key
 
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4moa is terrible for a match shooter who seek 0.5moa or less at 100 yards with his $1500 rifle setup and expensive ammo , but on the other hand, these same 4-moa are awesome for a shooter who bought a cheap AK74 shooting offhard from a bench.
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I agree...but, the OP was specifically asking about accurate rifles, so I assume that he wants better than 4MOA. IF you can reload 5.45mm (bu I don't know if brass is available) then it certainly can be made to shoot as good as the rifle is capable of. There is no stamp on a cartridge that says is can only be so accurate. The 5.45x39mm could certainly hang in there with the best of the .223Rems. with the proper loading.

:)
 
I wish H&R or Rossi, or one of the other cheap single-shot rifle makers would make a rifle in 5.45. It would be a fun cheap plinker to go with the cheap ammo. Plus it would be a lot easier to clean up after the corrosive stuff.
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I agree! But they might run into the same problem as when they tried making 7.62x39 models a few years back. From what I understand the hammers weren't smacking the firing pins hard enough when using surplus ammo with hard military primers.
 
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