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50% of PA Police Officers Would Enforce Confiscation?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bartholomew Roberts, Dec 6, 2004.

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  1. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    An interesting survey of PA police officer at Kim Du Toit's blog. Thought it would make an excellent discussion here (so long as we can keep the discussion civil and avoid broad, over-generalized bigotry towards either cops or the average joe).

    http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P5666
     
  2. Shield529

    Shield529 Member

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    Since we have no way of knowing how accurate that poll is or how it was conducted, I will assume it is BS.
    However if it is accurate and true, then it is the most disheartening thing I have ever seen come from a large group of fellow officers. :(
     
  3. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    If true, then three words come to mind: "Jack Booted Thugs".
     
  4. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Compare this response in the survey:
    To this response in the survey:
    The results above trip my BS meter alarm.

    How can they overwhelming say that citizens would be justified in revolting against the government but then say they'd be a part of that government and enforce confiscation.

    I don't buy it.
     
  5. TheFederalistWeasel

    TheFederalistWeasel member

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    I dunno how they do ???? up in PA but down here in GA we got this thing called the law, which must be obeyed.

    And when I went thru the academy I don’t remember anything about the ability of police supervisors to order warrant less searches.

    Law or no law you still need a warrant to enter a dwelling w/o exigent circumstances and the mere possession or potential possession of contraband is not exigent circumstances, if it was I’d been kicking in the doors of about 10 housing projects apartments tonight because I know they have dope in them, guaranteed.

    But even my hard hunch, direct knowledge won’t win me a search warrant in Magistrate court w/o hard documented probable cause.
     
  6. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    If you click on the link to the actual survey, it explains in detail how the survey was conducted - including the wording of the questions, sample size, participants, etc.
     
  7. lostone1413

    lostone1413 Member

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    If a law was passed were the goverment wanted your guns be it AW or your Handguns and the police were told to go door to door and confiscate your guns. Being they do it or it would mean their job. Their is no doubt in my mind nation wide way over 90% of the LEOs would be out knocking on doors. I truly believe we will see it. Don't forget as of now they have federal law to protect their right to own and carry a gun. You thnk if their job is at stake they will care about your 2nd amendment rights?? Don't bet on it!
     
  8. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Well only 21.5% say that citizens would not be morally bound to follow the law and only 29% say that citizens would be jusitifed in revolting. So I don't see how that is overwhelming support in those cases.
     
  9. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    Wow, police in two counties somehow equal 50% of all PA police?? Some survey.

    Nothing but BS.
     
  10. magsnubby

    magsnubby Member

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    An LEO would have to ask his self a few questions.

    "Do i really want to disobey my superiors and loose my job even though it's a morally reprehensible law? What happens when i run up against somebody i've arressted who's out to settle a grudge against me? I'm nolonger an LEO, they've confiscated my private collection, now i'm totally unarmed just like the rest of the population"

    What do you think his real answer will be?
     
  11. carp killer

    carp killer Member

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    I really hope that survey was bogus. Because during WWII rounding up Jews was morally wrong too. But someone did it. :what: :(
     
  12. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Look closer to home. Rounding up Japanese-Americans and putting them into camps was illegal, and it happened in America.

    I'm gonna go with werewolf on this one.
     
  13. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    1/2 of officers in some areas would enforce confiscation? Man, that's a lot of people to shoot. I sure hope our PA members are well-stocked on ammo (just in case). :)
     
  14. OpenRoad

    OpenRoad member

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    In my generalized opinion...

    I would doubt the results of this poll even if it were of NYC police. Most cops (the good ones) are pro-CCW for Joe Public. I imagine some of the bad ones don't like to see the expansion of civilian CCW across the country because it lowers crime and decreases the employment opportunities in their line of work.

    Alot of cops, though not an overwhelming percentage (mostly the police chiefs and others with chair shaped a$$es) seem to have a hang-up against scary looking rifles though....
     
  15. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I remember seeing this survey a few years back, and the results don't surprise me a whole lot.

    With respect to the discrepancies between general support of armed citizens and willingness to confiscate, all I can say is that a lot of people are poorly equiped to reconcile conflicting law and determine that law B is inconsistent with higher law A, and take appropriate action based soley on their own authority.

    That's just how humans are wired.
     
  16. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    When it comes to questioning the argument, first you must get the information correct. The thread title is incorrect. It is NOT 50% of PA police that said they would enforce confiscation. First, the cited story states that the survey was only for EASTERN PA, not the whole state. And if you follow the link there to the survey, as noted below, the survey was in only 2 counties.

    The 50% issue noted also is not representative of the over all survey and police attitudes towards guns. If you look at all the questions, you will find that most of the responses are pro gun. However, the officers will do their job as ordered. Failure to follow commands would no doubt result in job loss. Most probably are not willing to make some sort of Constitutional stand on the matter at the risk of job loss and being able to provide for their families.

    Something else to keep in mind is that while most gun folks feel the 2nd Amendment is all encompassing pertaining to the right to keep and bear arms, this has not proven true in real life application, laws passed, and court rulings. So, given that literal interpretations don't appear to be supported legally, I am sure officers would be inclined for enforce new laws. Such new laws would not be in conflict with some of the current patterns in 2nd Amendment interpretation.

    Based on the math, this is possible. The 29% who say citizens would be justified in revolting against such laws probably does not include many of the 50+% of officers who say they would uphold the law.
     
  17. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, unfortunately the title is fairly limited with regards to characters. If by some chance, you can come up with a superior option that fits the character limits, then by all means let me know.

    I can't change the existing thread title; but perhaps I can use it in the future.
     
  18. pax

    pax Member

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    That means 50% would NOT enforce confiscation -- a very remarkable number, all things considered.

    Frankly I'm surprised more officers wouldn't blindly follow orders.

    (Whoops, edited to add -- not because officers are lousy dirty rotten scumbags, but because they're ordinary humans beings with the very ordinary human being desire to get along with the boss...)

    pax
     
  19. artherd

    artherd member

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    I'm not sure about PA, but in CA we hand Law Enforcement all the Probable Cause they can stomach on a platter.

    It's called REGISTRATION!

    That's all you need. Gard documented articulatable evidence.

    Hell, it's HAPPENED in ca. Robinson M96s were deemed legal for sale, then deemed illegal, confiscated (and then eventually returned.)
     
  20. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    After reading the survey and this thread, one of two possibilities exist:
    a) it's BS
    b) it's not BS

    Either way, the solution is to buy more ammo.
     
  21. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I think if the poll were done in New York City, Chicago, or DC, 50% would be way too low.
     
  22. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    It's apparent that even members of Congress, a high percentage of them attorneys, don't understand the 2A, its real purpose, or the limitations it places upon them. State legislators often act as if free of US Constitutional constraints. Why should law enforcement be expected to be any more sophisticated in their thinking? I think education is a key factor here and would not assume that LEOs have some demonic purpose.

    The arbiters are the Courts, and they only want to deal with fringe abstractions. Really acknowledging the 2A head on would be an extreme embarrassment.

    If the police had their way, they would simply ensure that they would never be outgunned.

    The Constitution predated police departments, and therein lies the problem. How much power and authority should police really have?

    What would I do? I would stop importing criminals and I would stop breeding them here. It is also no time to get soft about capital punishment. It is a time to rethink victim-less crimes.
     
  23. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    We all do realize that the vast majority of LEO's are men and women who enforce laws that they DO NOT CREATE, right?

    So, head em off at the pass and keep your legislaters in-line. LE has enough to do what with catching criminals and writing paperwork and doing it again tomorrow.

    Failing that, keep in mind why the second was crafted, with proper historical references to Lexington/Concord and Paul Revere's ride; knowing that you will one day cross the line somewhere, just as the simple soldiers in red did back on April 19, 1775. I'm sure that at least 50% of the lobsterbacks didn't really like the idea of going out to deal with enforcing the Governor's law and those pesky "damned rebels".

    I first heard my father predicting all of this back in '68 with the passage of the GCA68. So far so good, exceptions of course in some places. It all begins in the Halls of Congress and the Statehouses with some do-gooder or two (or three... whatever takes a majority vote)
     
  24. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    As I’ve often said, many if not most gun owners are law-abiding to a fault, or at least they pretend to be on the Internet. However, the lack of dead gun-control advocates would appear to bear this out. These gun owners also seem to be the ones who revere the military and police as automatic heroes.

    Invariably, they are shocked and dismissive whenever anyone suggests that cops and soldiers might someday enforce a ban on firearms. They will argue that though politically minded commanders may support gun control, the rank and file will defend the right to keep and bear arms.

    Of course, this is nonsense. When it comes down to it, soldiers and to a lesser extent civilian cops will follow orders. That’s what they do, because they are just normal people and not super heroes.

    ~G. Fink
     
  25. alan

    alan Member

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    IF this poll in fact based, as opposed to being based on something else, perhaps the residue from "controlled substances", the following comes to mind.

    Just think of that pile of spent brass that such activity might perhaps generate, to say nothing about mounds of dead and wounded.
     
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