500 S&W Squibb/Dudd round - any ideas?

[Jeffreii]

I loaded up a some 500 S&W's a while back, don't remember what the recipie was exactly but it used H-110 and a berry's plated bullet. I fired one off, and heard nothing, figured the primer didn't go off or something, but it did - but only a small amount of the powder burned, most was unburned or turned yellow. The bullet went as far as it could - just past the gap. I figured the pressure all went out the gap and that was it at that point.

Everything looked oily too...but not sure - obviously there wasn't that much in the cartridge - does slightly/poorly ignited H-100 get like that? I have no idea why it did that, and I have not tried another round in that batch as the barrel was plugged. The only thing I can think of was I recall not having magnum primers in them, and H-110 likes magnums, but I used standard's before in 44's and they still worked fine, just not as good of a burn as a magnum, but never this. It was a CCI primer, can't recall if it was a LR or LP. Don't have the box of ammo with me with the recipe so its just what I can remember with that load. Never had any prob with the revolver before this but this was the first handloaded round I put in it.

I am wondering now that possibly this was just a dud primer that barely did anything, but enough to start a small burning. Seems like it just would ignite everything if some burned but I guess not - there was unburned powder all over the gun.

Today, I used a brass brazing rod to pound out the stuck bullet. I took some pictures of it. Any ideas what went wrong or similar situations?

 

[dmftoy1]

EXACTLY the same problem with the exactly same powder! This was the first caliber I tried to reload when I re-started reloading 4 years ago.

I went to magnum powders and a good solid roll crimp and the problem went away.

 

[EddieCoyle]

What happened to you is typical of what happens when you use too light of a charge of H110. You never want to go below the minimum weight recommended in the manuals. You also need a good strong crimp.

H110 is probably not a good powder for plated bullets. By the time you load enough of it in so that it will burn, you'll be exceeding the recommended velocity for the plated bullets, and you risk shooting one out of its jacket.

 

[Jeffreii]

I will have to dig up some other rounds from that batch and check the crimps - I ll post a pic when i find them. I would assume I would put a good crimp in it - especially since it has a grove and its not the single shot. But that could be it - H-110 may only burn correctly under high pressure and it may just require the crimp in order to do that. Seems like the bullet would not need much pressure anyway to start moving though, and as soon as the bullet passed the gap, what all pressure the was left.

 

[EddieCoyle]

You are correct - H110 does need sufficient pressure to "get rolling". If the crimp looks OK, pull the bullet and check the charge weight. The minimum charge for a 350gr bullet (if that's what you're using) is 39.0 grains.

Here's the problem: The minimum charge of H110 (39.0 grains) is going to get a 350gr bullet moving at over 1700 fps. Here's a couple of quotes (emphasis mine) from the FAQs on Berry's site:

*How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

and

*Is separation a problem with Plated Bullets?
Separation is very rare. Two things can cause a jacket to separate from the lead core: excessive speeds (magnum velocities) and a real tight roll crimp (cuts through the plating). If you'll keep these two items in check you shouldn't have a problem with bullet separation.

See, you're going to blow up your gun. I know two shooters that have blown up a .500 with plated bullets, and it almost happened to me.

Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[Jeffreii]

Thanks for the info all! I will have to go and dig them up now - i'm curious. I will check the crimps and charge weights.

I do have some H-Titegroup that that link above showed good for plinking rounds. I'm sure it would still pack a good punch at a campsite bruin.

What is different in the "plating" method over, say, the method used by Speer for gold dots? Are not both basically electroplated on? Perhaps the plating is just to thin on the berry's ones, and the lead real soft being 'swagged' and all. I know of either trying to bond the copper to the lead, or have them electroplated (molecule at a time forming on the lead).

At least they had a crimp groove so the jacket probably wasn't distorted. I used a taper crimp die for their 44 mag 240 grain ones to keep them in place without messing up the plating too bad.

Supposedly, according to berry, the 45/70 and 500 smiths are thicker and designed for "higher" velocity, but they don't tell you what that is, unfortunately.

 

[dmftoy1]

I'm not a bullet construction expert . ..

Ok, that being said, my understanding is that plating is done either by dipping or by using electro-static to cause the copper to adhere to the bullet.

I believe that jacketed bullets are formed by pressing a lead core into a copper "jacket" which is actually a piece of metal that is formed/swaged. (Much stronger)

Do you have any factory .50 S&W loads? I worked out my issues by comparing the crimp on some hornady that I had in the cabinet to what I was doing. I'll be curious if the crimp resolves your issue or the primers. My bet is that you need magnum primers AND the crimp.

Good Luck!