51 Navy Lever Drops On Firing

[Preposterous!]

Although I normally shoot my 51 Navy with a very light load for paper punching (777 - I think about 18gns equivalent BP vol) I decided last weekend to shoot with a full load - in other words the chamber filled to the brim then the ball seated on top till it just cleared the front face of the cylinder. I then filled the remaining chamber space with vegetable shortening (like Crisco).

The result was fun to shoot, somewhat less accurate than my target load and had the unexpected effect of un-latching the rammer every shot!

Can anyone tell me what I might be able to do to alleviate this? (other than reduce the load )the spring in the catch seems to be fairly strong.

Thanks in advance..

 

[Bezoar]

shoot lower amounts of 777 in a revolver. you did read the warning that 777 is more powerful then regular bp and bp substitutes?

as been explained in lots of places, you need to reduce the load of 777 by 15% compared to regular bp.
so for example, a 100 grain bp/pyrodex load would need to be reduced by 15% to a grand total of 85 grains of 777.

also you should check and see how strong the spring holding the lever catch in is, and check to see how well the catch engages the rest of the rammer.

 

[mykeal]

I think you are the victim of barrel dynamics. The load you have picked produces a barrel harmonic that unlatches the lever. Changing the catch spring will likely have no effect, and anything you do to change barrel harmonics may have adverse effects at other loads. I'd leave it alone.

If you wish to explore this further, heat the barrel at the latch and apply a bead of solder to the underside in front of the latch. Take care not to get the solder in the latch itself. Make the bead as large as you can. Then shoot it again and see if the latch remains closed. If not, see if the bead has fallen off; it may take several tries to get one that will stay, but once you do it should result in the latch staying closed.

This is unlike the famous Walker latch problem; the Walker latch is at the fixed end of the barrel and that area does not move with barrel dynamics. That's just a poor latch design. The 1851 Navy has the improved and very effective Colt redesigned latch which, as you know, normally works very well. So, it takes an unusual situation for it to fail, like a full load of 777 creating a very unusual barrel harmonic.

 

[scrat]

Agree with mykeal. other things you can try is a piece of leather under the forward most of the leaver. This is to reduce the vibration. Or also filing a groove on the loading lever to make it stick in the groove more of the catch under the barrel.


However the actual cure is to stop shooting that high of a load

 

[madcratebuilder]

File the notch on the loading lever lug beneath the barrel. I have had to do that on a few Colts with that style of lever. I have seen the depth of the notch vary from .030 to .120. File the notch to .090 or better and it should stay in place with the heaviest loads.

 

[AdmiralB]

I agree with the harmonic theory, but I disagree that changing the latch spring won't help - it might, if you can get a stiffer one.

A stiffer spring will change the harmonic response of the system as a whole...for better or worse, you don't know until you try.

But first, quit filling it with 777.

 

[RSVP2RIP]

I know eveeryone has a favorite but if you're looking for easier cleanup go with Pinnacle rather than 777. It is about the same pressure as BP but less mess like 777.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

That'll work as 18gr of BP is a good load in an 1851 Navy...I won't use 777 anymore...I don't like substitutes only use BP...but that idea you got on usin' Pinnicale is a good one.

HAVE FUN BE SAFE...

SG

 

[RSVP2RIP]

It's my favorite substitute, mainly because it is not corrosive and in the world of revolvers, thats a welcome attribute!

 

[Hellgate]

The lever catch (on the barrel) and the lever latch (on the rammer) need to mesh deeper. Usually the spring loaded latch tip is shaped like a chisel with the bottom parallel to the barrel and horizontal. The barrel catch should be horizontal on the bottom of the notch too. Often it is merely a < shaped notch that needs to be an L shape with the vertical tipped toward the latch and the BOTTOM surface of the notch also horizontal so the latch meshes like a chisel that has cut its shape into the catch. The bottom mating surfaces must be parallel to the barrel and then recoil (upward movement of the barrel) can't pull the rammer down. A small triangle file taken to the catch on the barrel is all you need to fix it. Just file the bottom of the notch so there is a HORIZONTAL plane for the rammer latch to glide along until it bottoms out in the notch. The filing also deepens the notch a little.

 

[mykeal]

I'd be reducing the load before I started modifying the gun to shoot one load, especially a full chamber load.

 

[Preposterous!]

Thanks for the suggestions..

Thanks for your help - I never realised that 777 needed a reduced load, having moved from Pyrodex to 777 I (wrongly) assumed that it would also be equivalent to BP/vol.

As far as using real BP against 777/Pyrodex, UK laws on explosives require a licence specially for BP, which includes some mildly onerous storage requirements. These requirements don't apply to 777/Pyrodex, as the law regards them as propellant (rather than explosive) which only requires special storage in huge quantities. I have never bothered applying for the BP licence for this reason.

I'll likely not shoot such a full load in the Colt again - it wasn't very consistent - but I'll check the catch interface angles anyway.

Thankyou for the quick and helpful replies!