55gr vs 62gr 5.56 ammo for SD?

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Good&Fruity

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I usually shoot steel cased Tula or Ulyanovsk ammo out of my 1/9 twist molly chrome barrels.

Right now I have the opportunity to buy a 300rd pack of 62gr green tip penetrator ammo for $106 shipped and after seeing it go through a 1/4 thick plate at 80 yards on youtube, I'm interested.

I have shot my 55gr russian ammo through slightly thinner steel plate up close without problems, but man that 62gr ammo looks like it is a good thing to keep in my mags as a general purpose close up/long range/put a hole through their cover SHTF load?
 
If whatever comes after you during "SHTF" is ensconced in steel plate, that AR15 is probably not going to be enough gun no matter how you slice it.

The 62-grain ammo with the insert-tip is fine for any defensive situation where a .223 might be adequate.

The 62-grain stuff often tests slightly less accurate than many other types of ammo from a benchrest. You won't be able to tell though if you are shooting at zombies in the tree-tops while your pants are on fire.
 
For SD? Neither. You're not a party to the Hague convention so you can use expanding bullets. Do so. The Barnes x-bullets, Federal Fusion soft points and Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claws are vastly superior to any FMJ in a SD role. Even the OTM bullets are a better choice. If all you care about is amount for the dollar, buy whatever is cheaper. If you actually care about terminal performance, spend the $$$ on a quality bullet.
 
For zombie attacks its fine (there are better prices out there for M855 btw (check IMI M855 from Wideners)).

Also the M855 projectile is longer than standard 62gr FMJ's. Should be ok for 1/9" twist, but something to think about
 
How much better are the JHP's or SP's vs the Lake City FMJ? I heard they are pretty damn good, especially if you want a large quanity of ammo to stockpile instead of the boutique $1 per round JHP's from Hornady?
 
saddlerocker said:
Also the M855 projectile is longer than standard 62gr FMJ's. Should be ok for 1/9" twist, but something to think about
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The 1:7 was required to more than adequately stabilize the M856 64gn tracer in the Arctic. The M855 is fine with 1:9.
 
M855 62gr FMJ (green tip) does not reliably penetrate windshields and light barrier materials, which is why the Army developed the M855A1 and the Marines use Mk318.

M855A1 is not available to the public.

You can purchase Mk318 at http://usarmorment.com/index.php?ma..._result&search_in_description=1&keyword=mk318

The problem with using 5.56 for SHTF is you MUST pay about $1.00 per cartridge for a general-purpose load that performs well.

I suggest 7.62x39mm for SHTF.
 
Shawn, I have an AK, but the projectiles are not as good as 5.56 IMP. Neither is the platform....
 
Shawn, I have an AK, but the projectiles are not as good as 5.56...
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Premium 7.62x39mm ammo also costs about $1.00/round, and produces greater wound trauma than premium 5.56x45mm.

I keep a stock of 7.62x39mm FMJ ammo for "emergency preparedness". I don't bother with premium stuff.

Neither is the platform....
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MOA/sub-MOA accuracy isn't needed to get good hits on targets "down the street". Learn how to be proficient with iron sights. Personally I like AK/SKS iron sights because they're so quick to use. Mount a red dot optic if you want. Maybe a light too. That's it for accessories for a defense carbine. Anything more is Mall Ninja junk.
 
When shooting people with a center fire rifle ammo choice isn't really all that critical.
 
For SD? Neither. You're not a party to the Hague convention so you can use expanding bullets. Do so.
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+1. I'm a fan of 53/55 gr HPs, even 40 grain.
M855 62gr FMJ (green tip) does not reliably penetrate windshields and light barrier materials
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My personal SD long gun needs usually don't tend toward prioritizing windshield penetration and barriers beyond drywall. Others' needs will be different; they may want to look also at loads using DPX/TSX bullets.
 
I don't think the penetrator will give you very much that a lighter hollow point, soft point, or even 55 grain FMJ would give you. If the bad guys have plate armor, most of it is rated to stop even the penetrator rounds. If they just have soft armor, any center fire rifle ammo (even the light HP/SP 5.56 stuff) will penetrate it just fine. As for penetrating cover, no 5.56 load is very good for that. The best would probably be the heavy 77 grainers, which are the heaviest you can have that will still fit in the mag. However, your 1/9 twist might not adequately stabilize them. Some do, some don't. If you're really worried about barrier penetration, get a rifle in a different caliber that shoots heavier bullets. You can only get so much mass out of a .22.
 
Clearly, the ability to penetrate a car window does not fall into the realm of self defense unless you are likely to be a victim of a drive by, in which case you better be able to defend shooting at a car in the street in court.

As noted, if you are not limited to non-expanding ammo, there is no reason to use M193 or M855 for SD. My wife's agency (Federal) issues Ranger 60 gn Partitions, and I have found the same round to be a good deer killer at reasonable ranges. Indoors a controlled pair into the torso will be a good stopper.

Also note that the 223 tends to penetrate less than pistol caliber ammunition in urban settings, which is one of the reasons Law enforcement has adopted .223 carbines over SMGs.
 
Clearly, the ability to penetrate a car window does not fall into the realm of self defense
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Given how much time people spend around and in vehicles, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the utility of being able to shoot into one should the situation demand it. And "the realm of self defense" is a bit overbroad as well given THR's international nature... we have a few members in Pakistan who face a very different threat environment than someone in suburban U.S.A.

Just an observation and not meant as a slam on you or the OP; but much of gun forum debate is meaningless because people aren't very specific about what they mean. The OP asks which round for "self-defense" but we have only the faintest clues as to what context he means that. Is he in post-Irene Vermont trying to keep strangers out of his neighborhood and a homemade roadblock? Is he living in a 400 sq ft apartment in Chicago with neighbors above, below and all sides? Maybe he lives on a 160 acres out in Alaska? You can't very well choose the right tool for the job without knowing what the job is... the question isn't too far off from someone asking "I'm sawing down a tree. Is a chainsaw better than a handsaw" without mentioning whether the tree is a 100yr old sequoia or a 1" diameter pine.

And your response kind of feeds that. Instead of finding out enough information to give a good response; you seem to have a lot of built-in assumptions in your answer.

Not that it matters much since I think for most people the ritual of talking about guns informally is the most important part of a gun forum and passing on information is just an occasional accidental side effect. You can surely see some examples of that in a good chunk of my many thousands of posts. ;)
 
Clearly, the ability to penetrate a car window does not fall into the realm of self defense unless you are likely to be a victim of a drive by, in which case you better be able to defend shooting at a car in the street in court.
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Breakdown of civil order (aka SHTF), such as after a major natural/man-made disaster or civil unrest has the potential to present many challenges. Is it better to possess the ability to reliably defeat light barrier materials (windshield glass, automotive sheet metal, building materials serving as concealment, etc.) and not need it than to need it and not have it? In this role cheap 7.62x39mm FMJ ammo provides similar, and in some cases superior, wound ballistics after passing through these kinds of barriers than the best "barrier-blind" expanding 5.56 ammo.
 
Alll BULL.....If you think you are going to have to shoot through barriers get a 308...other wise a 223 with a 55 grs. HP or SP will take care of some jackleg in the front yard.:evil:
 
When someone says SD and add 'rifle' I assume home defense since in most (but true, not all) situations, you aren't going to be carrying a rifle around for personal defense. In most US states, if you are shooting at a car in the street, you are on very shaky legal ground claiming self defense unless you are dealing with a drive by or similar situation. If the attacker is fleeing the scene and you are shooting at them, you are likely to be in serious legal trouble. And as another poster mentions, if vehicles are an issue, 223 is the wrong caliber.

Since the poster didn't say SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, I assumed that was not the situation. And truth be told, in a post disaster scenario, if you are walking around with a rifle where LE are present, you are asking for trouble IMHO.

But it is certainly worth asking the OP what they intended.
 
GunTech said:
When someone says SD and add 'rifle' I assume home defense since in most (but true, not all) situations, you aren't going to be carrying a rifle around for personal defense. In most US states, if you are shooting at a car in the street, you are on very shaky legal ground claiming self defense unless you are dealing with a drive by or similar situation. If the attacker is fleeing the scene and you are shooting at them, you are likely to be in serious legal trouble. And as another poster mentions, if vehicles are an issue, 223 is the wrong caliber.

Since the poster didn't say SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, I assumed that was not the situation. And truth be told, in a post disaster scenario, if you are walking around with a rifle where LE are present, you are asking for trouble IMHO.

But it is certainly worth asking the OP what they intended.
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I tried stabbing someone with a Ford F350 one time. That guy was within his right to shoot me.

I got better. Mostly.
 
I'm sore tempted to just shut down these "defense" threads unless a reasonably specific scenario is explained by the thread-starter...
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So true. Are we talking defense in your house, or defense from your car? There are so many factors that play into this.
 
^^^You're right, only a bazooka will be sufficient for all situations. I mean you may have to stop a rampaging APC...
 
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