6.5 swedish

[Gunner11]

I have just decided to reload for my 6.5, it's a 1943 husquvarna m38 I have accumulated a load of Norma brass, that measured 2750fps with the 140 gr nosler. My ADI reloading manual peaks out at 2500 for AR2208 with 36 grains and a case not quite 2/3 full for a 140 gr pill. I have heard people say these actions are "weak" but what are peoples thoughts on this. Speed doesn't always mean accuracy, but 3/4 in at 100 yards which the Norma ammo gives seems ok to me.

 

[lonniemike]

Kinda makes you wonder why Norma and some other European ammos are pushing 140 grain bullets above 2800fps.
Norma certainly does not say this ammo is not for use in 96 mausers. Work up loads. Look for accuracy modes. I don't talk about velocity much above 2600fps, as it can generate issues. Just remember that at around 2900fps you will be knocking on the doors of 264WinMag territory. A chrono is good to have.
Don't worry plenty will chime in soon on how to be careful with that weak old action. Wear your eye and ear protection.Best

 

[NCsmitty]

Compared to other small ring actions, they likely have the best steel of all the small ring actions, but they are still small rings and loads for them need to be held to the SAAMI specs of a maximum of 46,500 CUP or around 51,000 PSI for everyone's safety.
Can they take more pressure, more than likely, but you should not feed them a steady diet of higher pressure loads, because they can and do self destruct occasionally when pushed too far.
They do not have the additional safeguards that came with the large ring M98 Mausers.

I have some Norma 156gr ammo that I have used in my '41 Husky Swede, and it's an accurate, potent load at a rated 2640, but it's not likely that you can develop handloads that will duplicate the factory ammo with safe pressures using canister powder available. With the Swede 6.5, it's not all about velocity.
Stick with the loads listed in the manuals that have the proper pressure range for the M96/M38 Swede Mausers, and you should be happy.


NCsmitty

 

[Kachok]

140gr in a 6.5x55
TRY RL22! That is the only powder I use in mine with 140gr.

 

[RPRNY]

SAAMI is girlish about the 6.5x55. The Swedish Mauser May not be K98, but SAAMI is girlish on 8x57 as well. Check CUP pressures for 6.5x55 and I believe (please verify rather than relying on my recollection) you will see max at 55,000 psi.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[WYOMan]

MAP for the Swede is 46,000 CUP. If I remember correctly, that equates to roughly 51,000 PSI. 2700 fps can be done within that limit, I've done it with IMR 4831 and 140 SMK's. But my favorite load is with RE-22, and it eases out at 2515 fps avg. with 140 SST's.

 

[splattergun]

I have my g'friend's '41 Husqvarna stored at my house. I've had the opportunity to shoot it quite a bit, with 140 gr Norma and 139 gr Prvi Partisan ammo which shoot from 2540 fps Prvi to 2700 fps for Norma. I have had excellent accuracy with both these factory loads. Do not underestimate the potential performance of the listed 2800 fps load data!

The small ring Swedish action is not weak. It is simply 70+ years old and has not been proofed for modern pressures, so for safety sake you do not want to load higher pressure rounds. A new manufacture rifle chambered in 6.5 Swede will be proofed for higher pressures, if you feel you really, really need to push it higher. Or go to a lighter bullet if you must absolutely get to the 3000 fps mark

As for me, 140 gr @ 2500-2800 fps performs in the sweet spot for this cartridge.

 

[41 Mag]

I picked up one of the Kimber America pieces of work a bunch of years ago for my daughter to have a bang around woods rifle. It came with a real piece of work Ramline stock that wouldn't hold still in a sneeze. I managed to pick up a Fajen wood stock for it from Midway, and after swapping it, the scope. and the mounts, we finally got it shooting on one target.

I worked on loads for it for almost two years on and off, before I found one that shot to acceptable levels. (after the above overhaul). We rolled along with the then just released 140gr Hornady A-max loaded to a blistering 2580fps. Before I allowed her to hunt anything with it I put the loads through the wringer on a hundred or so feral hogs ranging in size form around 30# up to over 250, and from ranges of a few feet out to over 400yds.

Trust me when I say just pick a good 140gr bullet, load to around 25-2600fps and go for accuracy, the rest will take care of the job at hand. Even using the A-max, which everyone will tell you is NOT a hunting bullet, even if they have never used it on game, you will find that this combination of speed and bullet weight will do just like most of the writers say it will , and that is preform all out of proportion to what you would thing it should.

As for factory ammo, I have not found anything which will turn in tighter groups than the Privi 140gr stuff. I got us a half dozen boxes to use on the hogs figuring it was cheaper than loading and a LOT easier. The oldest grandson then at 9yrs old shot three, followed by my daughter and then myself. We had 9 rounds in a 3/4" group at 100yds from three different shooters. It has kept this performance for the past 7 years and is death on the wind for the hogs and a couple of deer as well. Not that the previous load using the A-max wasn't, far from it, it was something to behold giving stellar expansion and penetration even to the longest shots I took with them. The daughter never reached out beyond 100yds with them but has taken some of her best bucks using them. I just went through the testing to be sure the bullets would hold up and do what needed to be done.

 

[Slamfire]

To be conservative, stick with loads that approximate Swedish service rifle pressures. Just that simple.


M1896 Infantry Rifle 29' barrel Carl Gustafs mfgr 1903

143 gr FMJ 1986 Swedish Ball

17-Aug-06 T = 85 °F
Ave Vel = 2610
Std Dev = 14.38
ES = 45.59
High = 2633
Low = 2587
N = 8



M38 Infantry Carbine 24" barrel


143 gr 1986 Swedish Ball OAL 3.065" 47.4 grs powder average
28-Oct-94 T ≈ 60 °F
Ave Vel = 2427
Std Dev = 22
ES = 62
Low = 2395
High = 2457
N = 10

M700 22" Barrel

143 gr Swedish Ball 1986 headstamp
2 Feb 2008 T = 54 °F

Ave Vel = 2470
Std Dev = 18
ES = 48
High = 2491
Low = 2443
N = 5

140 gr Hornday Spire Point 43.0 grs AA4350
R-P new brass CCI-200 OAL 2.990"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F

Ave Vel = 2512
Std Dev = 27
ES = 72
High = 2547
Low = 2475
N = 5





The Swedish military designed and built these action to be used with Swedish Army issue ammunition. You can load higher pressure loads in the things but what you do not know, until you pull the trigger, just what that will do to the action.

These actions were made of plain carbon steels, which is low grade even by WW2 standards, you don’t know if you have one of the “strong ones” or one of the weak ones. According to postings by others, you can assume with a high degree of confidence that the heat treatment varied quite a bit.

Early Mauser actions do not handle gas well, the M98 does, but this is a M96, there is no warranty on your rifle, you push the limits you are all on your own.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181256-Channeling-P-O-Mauser-blow-up-project

Quite a few years ago another fellow and I bought 60 of those Sweedes when they could still be had quite cheap. We decided we were going to do a quick "sporterising" on them and make a fortune. Took the whole pile and bent the bolts, drilled and tapped, cut down stocks, installed Weaver mounts, the whole banana.

Learned a lot on that one, 60 bolts to low forge and polish is one heck of a lot of work for one, not all Sweedes are heat treated the same for another.
Noticed a lot of variation when we started to drill and tap. Some seemed like butter, some hard as glass. Started to put them on the Rockwell machine and it proved out so. Some receivers would not hardly register, some were as high as 42. Bolts also were all over the place.

It didn't seem to make any difference as to year of manufacture, they just varied. Most seemed to follow the standard Mauser heat treat with a case hardening but a few came along that seemed to be hard all through.
Interesting project. I think in the long run if we would have stopped to figure our time we lost our butts. Made no difference, in our minds eye we made one heck of a killing.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/input-gun-project-259589/

I have a Swedish 96 action almost blown in half.

Bolt remained locked and in position, ~ 1 sq in of right sidewall of receiver has been blown completely off, Right rail fractured right in front of rear bridge. Stock was broken in 2.

No overpressure load.. Factory..

Case failed at primer pocket.. (probably a seam in case blank)

Expanding gas has nowhere to go.. The thin wall of early Mauser actions where locking lugs must rotate, is the weak point. A couple gas relief holes (like on modern bolt rifles) Might have saved action...

Since an overpressure action failure, is not involved in ALL rifle failures. Why bother testing for action strength when the cartridge brass, as posted above, is almost always the point of failure in a rifle?? Main things to worry about are, gas/debris going to rear, and gas handling at front of action. Testing how an action handles that might be worthwhile.. Testing action failure mode with an overload of improper powder is a waste of time...

The military has experimented with, and deployed enemy caliber ammunition designed to blow up a rifle... High explosives instead of powder seem to provide a sure fire action test to failure load.. This looks pretty likely... AK-47 blows up in the hands of a terrorist - YouTube

Bad brass, Excessive (extremely) headspace. Extremely loose chamber, all cause problems

There is not an action out there, that provides ANY support for the extractor groove on a rimless cartridge.

Case base (yes fairly thick usually) has an extractor groove that is supported only by air.. Rimless cartridges of course..

Loading test rounds that exceed the strength of the weakest part, (the brass) is only going to cause the problems Speerchucker has already brought up..

 

[Gunner11]

Well it works, never really had any doubt, 140 gr sierra game king on 34gr of ar 2208, from 150 metres with the irons, really pleased. Not super fast, but did the business.

 

[splattergun]

And there you have it. Ladies and gentlemen, the 6.5x55 Swede.

Good shooting, Gunner. congrats