6.5 Weatherby RPM

[MISportsman]

I'm going to start with a disclaimer lol. This thread is just for fun and information. I'm not trying to step on any toes or say that something is better or worse than something else. I am also not in the market to buy one either (I don't have $3000+ for a rifle chambered in it). I was reading about the 6.5 Weatherby RPM and the Mark V Backcountry and it sounds like a perfect match for the avid mountain hunter (which living in Michigan I am not lol). Does anyone own one? Is it all the hype it's made up to be? Just curious.

 

[BreechFace]

I heard about this a while ago an did some cursory review of it and comparable and I came to the conclusion below:

Looks like a recreated the 6.5 PRC but in a long action instead of the PRC's short action, good luck Weatherby is what I say. So the 6.5 PRC is going to have limited magazine capacity due to it's cartridge diameter, and there are some reports of handloaders running out of length with long projectiles in the short action. With the 6.5 WBY RPM, its a slenderer cartridge to allow for greater magazine capacity then that of the 6.5 PRC.

To me both of these are still chasing my 280ai which is kind of what I measure cartridges by that are close in performance. Not trying to play oneupsmanship, just what I compare to because it is what relates to me. But both appear to be in a good spot for an all around game getter. I just think that Weatherby is going to be pissing in the headwinds of the 6.5 PRC market which has pretty good momentum.

In regards to the Mark V Backcountry, looks like a nice rifle to be sure.

 

[troy fairweather]

I handled one of the rifles when they first came out and liked it, the rpm looks nice but haven't seen any ammo around my area. I thought I seen the vanguard chambered in the rpm at one time.

 

[LoonWulf]

143-147gr 6.5mm bullet at 3000fps is nothing to sneeze at. It takes my .280AI another 20grs and 2" if barrel to equal the BC, and velocity. My 7mag burns 10+gr more powder to do it from a 24" tube.

So in those terms yeah its a pretty decent cartridge lol

Is it worth investing in a unique case ......i dunno bout that.

 

[BreechFace]

My 280ai with a 22" barrel shoots 140gr Nosler to 3,150fps with a BC of .485G1 (verified 10 shots over chrony) This is off the shelf Nosler ammunition, not even my handloads, so as to take out that variable.

Weatherby's 6.5 RPM, per their velocities on the website shoots the 6.5 140gr Nosler AB to 3,075fps with a BC of .509G1 (unknown barrel length, unverified)

It's past 1,000 yards where the BC of the Nosler AB takes over, probably in the 1,100-1,200 range.

 

[BreechFace]

It seems that between the 280ai, 6.5PRC, and the now 6.5WBY RPM; there is a known sweet spot for performance. The 280ai has been used out west here for quite some time, and for good reason these velocities and BC's work well as they are flat shooting and forgiving in the wind.

I've ran the numbers on the 6.5PRC when it came out and it's very similar in performance as well.

 

[mshootnit]

I'm going to start with a disclaimer lol. This thread is just for fun and information. I'm not trying to step on any toes or say that something is better or worse than something else. I am also not in the market to buy one either (I don't have $3000+ for a rifle chambered in it). I was reading about the 6.5 Weatherby RPM and the Mark V Backcountry and it sounds like a perfect match for the avid mountain hunter (which living in Michigan I am not lol). Does anyone own one? Is it all the hype it's made up to be? Just curious.

Well, I thought about one, but when I look at the numbers, it is basically a 270 Win. I mean we can discuss tight twist and target 6.5 bullets and blah blah blah, but at all practical hunting ranges, it is a 270. So instead I ordered like 300 rounds of Federal Fusion for my Tikka 270 and called it a day.

And I like Weatherby's. Dont get me wrong

 

[LoonWulf]

My 280ai with a 22" barrel shoots 140gr Nosler AB to 3,150fps with a BC of .485G1 (verified 10 shots over chrony) This is off the shelf Nosler ammunition, not even my handloads, so as to take out that variable.

Weatherby's 6.5 RPM, per their velocities on the website shoots the 6.5 140gr Nosler AB to 3,075fps with a BC of .509G1 (unknown barrel length, unverified)

It's past 1,000 yards where the BC of the Nosler AB takes over, probably in the 1,100-1,200 range.

Thats pretty quick for a 22" barrel, but within range for what id expect.
The only factory ammo ive shot from my Ridgeline has been Federal fusion .280 and those clock 3050 from my guns 26" tube.
My 150gr ballistic tip hand loads would do 3150, but my go to load are 162gr A-max (or eldms now i guess since my supply of amax are gone after the last 50rnds ive got loaded) at 3050.

Basically the same ballistics ive gotten from my 5 or 6 7mags with 24-26" barrel.

My 24" 6.5PRC COULD be loaded to break 3100 with 147elds, but it was an M18, so long action longish magazine. It also took way more powder than the loading manuals suggested it should.
3000 was an easy safe number, tho still over book.

24" 6.5-284 would get 140s to 3050 pretty easy, 143/147s were right at 3000.

The two 24" .270Wins would get 2850-2900 with 150ABs and ablrs, and 3000 with 145 Elds.....not REALLY sure why the elds were that much faster than the ABLRs, bearing surface looked similar......

All in all they shoot within inches of each other as far out as i wanna walk to go pick stuff up, and theres really nothing id shoot one with i wouldn't shoot with the others (given those loads).

Really the only reason i can see to choose one over the others, or to add something similar (like the RPM), is simply because you want to (or want the specific gun the round is chambered in).

 

[horsemen61]

6.5 RPM huh
Mhmm something to think on

 

[BreechFace]

Thats pretty quick for a 22" barrel, but within range for what id expect..

22” Proof Barrel, suppressed.
I guess it was a 14 shot string not 10. That was a long time ago, bought some factory for some brass and wanted to see how close to Nosler specs on a 24” barrel mine would get. They list on the box 3,200fps.

 

[earlthegoat2]

It was a good idea of Weatherby to also chamber their Backcountry rifle in .280 AI and that is the one I would pick if I had to choose between the two.

 

[BreechFace]

It was a good idea of Weatherby to also chamber their Backcountry rifle in .280 AI and that is the one I would pick if I had to choose between the two.

I didn’t know they have a 280ai chambering in that. Hmmmm….I’ve always thought their actions were cool but I never cared for their Weatherby loadings or rifles and really don’t care for belted magnums so they were always passed over for me.

I might just have to save up for one of those.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I didn’t know they have a 280ai chambering in that. Hmmmm….I’ve always thought their actions were cool but I never cared for their Weatherby loadings and really don’t care for belted magnums so they were always passed over for me.

I might just have to save up for one of those.

It comes in lefty too. I would have to sell 3 or 4 of my guns to justify the price. It is tempting because those actions are so nice.

 

[rizbunk77]

I didn’t know they have a 280ai chambering in that. Hmmmm….I’ve always thought their actions were cool but I never cared for their Weatherby loadings and really don’t care for belted magnums so they were always passed over for me.

I might just have to save up for one of those.

For me it is the opposite. The mark v 9 lug is big and a little clunky, but those double radius magnums are cool.

 

[BreechFace]

For me it is the opposite. The mark v 9 lug is big and a little clunky, but those double radius magnums are cool.

Yeah the 9 lugs do look clunky l, but I’ve never been interested in the magnums their 6 lugs have think look cool and would be an interesting action to own.

 

[MachIVshooter]

So, a 6.5-06 AI, but with dimensions that make it incompatible with a 6.5-06 chamber, introduced in a very expensive rifle amidst a sea of established 6.5mm rounds, and it does not exceed the performance of the existing hotter numbers.

There's stupid, then there's this.

Never really cared for Weatherby, but always had some reverence. This dumbassery erodes that.

 

[wombat13]

It seems that between the 280ai, 6.5PRC, and the now 6.5WBY RPM; there is a known sweet spot for performance. The 280ai has been used out west here for quite some time, and for good reason these velocities and BC's work well as they are flat shooting and forgiving in the wind.

I've ran the numbers on the 6.5PRC when it came out and it's very similar in performance as well.

I did the same last year. I ended up going with .280ai for a number of reasons:

1. Just because I've been intrigued by it for nearly 20 years.
2. It uses all the same powders that I already stock for .300WM. 6.5PRC likes powders a bit slower, but does overlap with .300WM.
3. I can form brass from .30-06 if necessary (I know it's not the best option, but it will work and I have a mountain of .30-06 brass).
4. Finally, it allows you to go with heavier bullets if you want to go for game bigger than whitetails. I know people hunt elk/moose with 6.5mm but I think it's borderline.

I'm putting together a stable of hunting rifles for my son. I started with a Savage Axis II in .25-06 which is excellent for game up to whitetails. By the time he's big enough to handle the recoil, he will be given Grandpa's Ruger Hawkeye stainless in .338WM which will be good for elk on up to anything not in Africa. So, I bought a Kimber Hunter in .280ai which perfectly fills the gap between those two. He'll just need to add something on the small end (maybe I'll get him a .223) and something in .375 or bigger if he ever wants to go to Africa.

 

[wombat13]

It comes in lefty too. I would have to sell 3 or 4 of my guns to justify the price. It is tempting because those actions are so nice.

I'm a lefty and would love to get a .280ai in a lefty rifle, but I think I might be done buying left-handed rifles. My son is right-handed and right-eye dominant, so what am I going to do with a left-handed rifle when I'm done with it? Especially a really nice, expensive rifle. I'd expect to take a beating on resale in 25 years when I'm ready to hand it down and there are no lefties in my family who want it.

For that reason, I just bought a kimber hunter in .280ai. I'm going to have fun getting it all setup with great handloads, probably take a couple deer with it, and then give it to my son when he's ready to move up from the .25-06.

I did seriously consider buying two Savage Axis II rifles, one lefty .30-06 and one righty .280ai and then swap the barrels so I could have lefty .280ai that I wouldn't lose much money on when I'm done with it. You can only lose $400 on a rifle that costs $400.

Maybe I should just shoot my lefty Ruger .300WM more and rechamber it in .280ai when the barrel's shot out.

 

[BreechFace]

As far as the unique case for the 6.5 WBY RPM, Weatherby owners have always been subject to limited exposure for their cartridges, so this is just more of the same, unless other companies pick up and run with it. I doubt this will be the case, it seems like all the attention nowadays is on the PRC’s.

I’m not an adopter of new cartridges unless they really offer something of substance over what I already shoot. And much of the new cartridges don’t offer much over what I have, if any advantage for real world use.

 

[mshootnit]

So, a 6.5-06 AI, but with dimensions that make it incompatible with a 6.5-06 chamber, introduced in a very expensive rifle amidst a sea of established 6.5mm rounds, and it does not exceed the performance of the existing hotter numbers.

There's stupid, then there's this.

Never really cared for Weatherby, but always had some reverence. This dumbassery erodes that.

What they were trying to do was fit the most 6.5 performance possible in their smaller 6 lug action without modification. It therefore has a slight rebated rim. It may not be popular but it does achieve their objectives. 6.5 is the rage right now. It does not seem that the new Weatherby is married to the old belted mags, nor the old California stock style, and for the money they are turning out some very nice Wyoming made rifles. I don't knock that at all. The more the marrier. I dont want to have to choose between a Japanese, a Portuguese, or a Finnish rifle in the end. I'll take one from Sheridan Wyoming

 

[BreechFace]

What they were trying to do was fit the most 6.5 performance possible in their smaller 6 lug action without modification. It therefore has a slight rebated rim. It may not be popular but it does achieve their objectives. 6.5 is the rage right now. It does not seem that the new Weatherby is married to the old belted mags, nor the old California stock style, and for the money they are turning out some very nice Wyoming made rifles. I don't knock that at all. The more the marrier. I dont want to have to choose between a Japanese, a Portuguese, or a Finnish rifle in the end. I'll take one from Sheridan Wyoming

Agreed, on the Weatherby style changing is a good one. They never appealed to me other than their action design. Now they are getting into rifles that have more appeal to me and a nice 6 lug option getting the size and weight down. After seeing these new backcountry, titanium action Weatherby's it's got my attention, screw on a Proof Carbon barrel on one of those and that would be a dandy mountain rifle.

6.5 was so last week, it's 6mm now that's all the rage. Then it will come full circle back up to the 30's and 7mm's again. I'll just wait and catch the ride when it gets back to the 7mm's with maybe some new bullet tech to take advantage of. Carry on you 6.5 folks, your star is starting to dwindle but you'll be back in the limelight in about 10-15 years from now when it moves through it's progression again.

The 7mm/30 cal star is already starting to rise again with 7mmPRC and 30PRC.

Woohoo for me, new 7mm bullets to try out in longer lengths/heavier, my Proof barrel is twisted for them, am I just lucky or it's almost like I've seen this progression before.

Go out and sell all your 6.5's, oh wait you'll need those in 10-15 years when we come back to them. Well, maybe just get some cosmoline and store them.

Moral of the story above, if you don't want multiple calibers, pick a caliber, be it .264, .277, .284, or .308 and stick with it when speaking about this section of calibers. It'll save you money (chasing the next "best" thing) and time (fine tuning is only necessary when one sticks to a caliber) in the long run. Each of the respective calibers have darlings that hit a sweet spot, one just has to pick how big of a hole and energy they want to put in the animal.

 

[wombat13]

Each of the respective calibers have darlings that hit a sweet spot, one just has to pick how big of a hole and energy they want to put in the animal.

I would just add to your criteria "how far do you need to send that bullet." How big a hole determines your caliber. Then you should pick the bullet and weight to give you the penetration/terminal performance you want. Then you pick the chambering based on how far away you need to send that bullet and still have the velocity/energy needed for the game you are hunting. Of course, the farther you want to send a given bullet, the greater the recoil.

I hunt pretty much exclusively with Nosler BT/Accubond (a little Partition) or Barnes TTSX. I did an analysis by caliber to determine the cartridges that were most efficient, i.e., the ratio of range (for a given velocity on impact) divided by recoil. I found something very interesting to me. For a given bullet there appears to be a velocity sweet spot. 3,000 fps MV +/- 100 fps or so appears to be the velocity sweet spot for Nosler BT/Accubond bullets (for my given metric range/recoil) with that optimal velocity decreasing as bullet weight increases.

Take 7mm Accubonds for example. I used Nosler load data and took the third highest velocity and the average charge weight for the powders with the three highest velocities. I plugged that data into the Hornady ballistic calculator to find the distance at which the bullet would still be traveling 2,200 fps (also did it at 2,000 fps) and plugged the data into an online recoil calculator. It turns out that there is a parabolic curve for each bullet weight. The peak of the curve, or predicted optimal MV, is about 3,100 fps for 120 gr and 140 gr bullets, a little over 3,000 fps for 150 gr bullets and a little over 2,950 fps for 160 gr bullets. A cartridge that produces MV much slower than these numbers is likely giving up a lot of range for the recoil you save while a cartridge that produces MV much faster is costing you a lot of recoil for the range you gain.

Not surprisingly, the standout cartridges are the most popular cartridges. 7mm-08 is clearly the most efficient with 120 gr bullets. .280 rem is the most efficient with 140 gr bullets, but 7mm-08 is excellent if you don't need quite that much range, and .280ai and 7mm RM are excellent if you need more range. Same holds true for 150 gr bullets. 7mm-08 starts to run out of gas with 160 gr bullets. Best bets are .280 rem, .280ai, and 7mm RM.

The wisdom of crowds strikes again.

I guess I should include info on 6.5mm cartridges since the OP was about the 6.5 weatherby. In the 6.5 bullets the optimal Accubond velocity appears to be about 3,100 fps for 100 and 120 gr bullets; 3,000 fps for 130 gr bullets; and 2,900 fps for 140 gr bullets. In the 100 and 120 gr bullets, the 6.5 creedmoor and .260 rem are ideal (creedmoor a little more efficient) but the 6.5-06 is excellent if you need more range. The creedmoor, .260 and 6.5-06 are tops with the 130 gr bullet. It's the 140 gr bullet (and presumably heavier, although I didn't do any analysis for heavier bullets) where the 6.5 PRC is clearly the best. The 6.5-06 is still excellent with the 140 gr bullet but the creed and .260 start to run out of gas. Also, the 6.5-284 is just as efficient as the 6.5-06 in the 130 and 140 bullets but not the lighter bullets.

I haven't looked at the 6.5 weatherby RPM. Somebody above said that it is basically the same as the 6.5-06. If it really does offer the same velocities with about the same powder charges as the 6.5-06 it will be an excellent hunting round and a nice factory supported alternative for people who like the 6.5-06 or 6.5-284. That still may not be enough for it to succeed.

 

[BreechFace]

@wombat13

It's like you regurgitated what has rolled around in my head for 20 years. Well said!

Purpose should drive the cartridge, caliber, bullet, rifle. Not over hyped marketing that's just trying to get to your pocket book. The hairs have been split so fine the differences are next to nil on some of these overlapping capability windows.

This is why I suggested to figure out how big a hole you want to put in an animal, what velocities can be achieved, energies on target at expected distances, BC's of the bullets to be used and recoil. Once those items are determined I feel one is best served sticking with a caliber and doing ones best to make the most of it, rather than jump around from caliber to caliber, cartridge to cartridge chasing a very small performance "gain."

For me I would love it if the 7mm Valkyrie took off for the AR15, because I would get rid of my 6.8 SPC and then would have really good coverage with a semi-auto hunter for predators, varmints, etc in the 7mm Valkyrie, a great white tail/mule deer/antelope rifle in 7mm08 and a great big game rifle in the 280ai. Maybe this is just my OCD talking but it makes sense to me.

7mm Valkyrie bullets </=140gr
7mm08 bullets ranging from 120-150gr
280ai bullets ranging from 140-175gr
7mmPRC bullets ranging from 160-195gr

The same can be said for 6.5/.264
6.5 Grendel
260 Rem/6.5 CM
6.5-06
6.5 PRC/6.5 WBY RPM

​

 

[wombat13]

@wombat13

It's like you regurgitated what has rolled around in my head for 20 years. Well said!

Purpose should drive the cartridge, caliber, bullet, rifle. Not over hyped marketing that's just trying to get to your pocket book. The hairs have been split so fine the differences are next to nil on some of these overlapping capability windows.

This is why I suggested to figure out how big a hole you want to put in an animal, what velocities can be achieved, energies on target at expected distances, BC's of the bullets to be used and recoil. Once those items are determined I feel one is best served sticking with a caliber and doing ones best to make the most of it, rather than jump around from caliber to caliber, cartridge to cartridge chasing a very small performance "gain."

For me I would love it if the 7mm Valkyrie took off for the AR15, because I would get rid of my 6.8 SPC and then would have really good coverage with a semi-auto hunter for predators, varmints, etc in the 7mm Valkyrie, a great white tail/mule deer/antelope rifle in 7mm08 and a great big game rifle in the 280ai. Maybe this is just my OCD talking but it makes sense to me.

7mm Valkyrie bullets </=140gr
7mm08 bullets ranging from 120-150gr
280ai bullets ranging from 140-175gr
7mmPRC bullets ranging from 160-195gr

The same can be said for 6.5/.264
6.5 Grendel
260 Rem/6.5 CM
6.5 PRC/6.5 WBY RPM/6.5-06

​

Agreed. The 6.5-06 really does slide in between the .260/6.5CM and the 6.5 PRC. I haven't looked at any data for the 6.5 WBY RPM, so can't say where it falls.

Some day, when the kids are grown and I have more cash than I know what do with (lol!) I'd love to put together a battery of all of the best '06 derivatives: .25-06, 6.5-06, .280/280ai (I know it isn't exactly '06, but it's close enough that I can form it from '06), .30-06 (of course!), .338-06, and .35 whelen. I have the .25-06, .280ai, and .30-06. Would just need to add the 6.5, .338 and .35. Of course, by the time I get around to this, my son will have the .25-06 and the .280ai, so I'll be down to my Garand.

Is there a good 6mm-06 wildcat? That should be smokin' fast!

 

[BreechFace]

Agreed. The 6.5-06 really does slide in between the .260/6.5CM and the 6.5 PRC. I haven't looked at any data for the 6.5 WBY RPM, so can't say where it falls.

Some day, when the kids are grown and I have more cash than I know what do with (lol!) I'd love to put together a battery of all of the best '06 derivatives: .25-06, 6.5-06, .280/280ai (I know it isn't exactly '06, but it's close enough that I can form it from '06), .30-06 (of course!), .338-06, and .35 whelen. I have the .25-06, .280ai, and .30-06. Would just need to add the 6.5, .338 and .35. Of course, by the time I get around to this, my son will have the .25-06 and the .280ai, so I'll be down to my Garand.

Is there a good 6mm-06 wildcat? That should be smokin' fast!

I see you are OCD like me but in a different way. OCD for all things that can be made from 30-06 brass. I like it, as long as you have 30-06 brass you are covered for all your derivatives.

You are probably right on the 6.5-06, I edited my post.