6.5mm grendell v. 6.8mm spc

[tsalaf666]

ok, so about three years back i was working on a rifle design for the war in iraq. basically it was an accurised m16 that would either use 6.5mm, 6.8mm or 5.56mm. i know how the 5.56 functions, but not the other two.
basically the idea was that the modern day threat to america is mostly terorism and terorists dont wear body armour. as a result you can use a rifle out to further ranges and still kill em.
unfortunately the army seemed to have the same idea as me and came out with the samr which uses 5.56 probly for convenience and price.
but i am still curious as to how the 6.5's and 6.8's function.
from what i here the 6.5's are a lot etter than the 6.8's in almost every way.
so does anyone know anything about them?
please let me know, thanks.

 

[Hazzard]

The 6.5 Grendel seems to perform better at longer ranges (ie 1000 yrds) than either the 6.8SPC or 308 NATO due to it's higher BC. Less drop, less affected by wind, and more energy past 600 yds or so. It also seems to be extremely accurate being based on the 6mm PPC case design, but I have no direct experience with the round and am going soley on what I have read in ballistic tables, etc...

 

[Gtab]

I think that's what I've heard as well, Hazzard. For a SAMR, I can see the 6.5 being a useful new line of thought, and I hope the military is working on it.

On a similar topic, I am very curious to know which is better for CQB applications, though, as everyone I know in Afghanistan and Iraq (American and Canadian alike) are experiencing all of their gunfights in ranges of between 25y - 75y, with very little serious engagement for normal infantry beyond that. In addition, everyone I know in the armed forces over in the warzones has spent considerable time patrolling, clearing houses and buildings -- meaning that MOUT (Military Operations in Urbanized Terrain) is a definite consideration for all rounds -- you need a significant ability to eliminate the safety zone of cover and concealment, to reach out and touch them behind thin walls or car doors, and still cause significant damage.

For my $0.02, I'd be wondering more about this at this point in time

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The 6.5 seems to be a better cartridge, 6.8 seems to have better industry support and availability. Sorta like the old VHS vs Beta thing. The best performer doesn't always win in the marketplace.

They both look like good cartidges, though. I'd be thrilled if either one were to take off in a big way. Sadly, it looks like they both might fizzle and die.

 

[tsalaf666]

well as far as i know the army is not working on a 6.5mm rifle. probably because it's cheaper to use the standard 5.56mm and, although it's not as good as the grendel, it gets the job done.
and i think that your rite about the grendel and spc never making it big, kinda sucks.

as for the shooting taking place at such close ranges, well obviously that's because the iraqis always shoot on full auto with there high-recoil AK's so they cant hit much even at close ranges.
the marines just started using the samr's recently. rite now it's just testing to find out how well they will work. they are not however designed for iraq specifically. they are for the "war on terror" in general. if america invades another country they will have to expect millitary resistance before getting to urban areas. thats where this rifle would come in. though i think it was stupid on americas part to spend so much money testing this gun when they really could have simply bought some tavors from israel. the tavor s21 can perform just aswell as the samr but is shorter and lighter than a regular m16 which is good for cqb aswell as long range shooting.
what would be awesome though, is a tavor s21 made to fire 6.5mm ammunition.

 

[tsalaf666]

sorry to double post, as for shooting through walls, if america wants to do really well they should adopt israels method of using the barrett .50bmg... i think your getting the picture hahaha.

 

[DogBonz]

That might be true

well as far as i know the army is not working on a 6.5mm rifle. probably because it's cheaper to use the standard 5.56mm

But from what I’ve heard, the Grendel, because of its shorter, fatter design, does not function as well as the longer thinner design of the 5.56 or 6.8 in machine guns, particularly those that are belt fed. The links take up almost all of the case, and thus feeding can unreliable.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I've heard the same draw back to Grendel -- case geometry is not especially friendly for reliable feeding compared to the more conventional case shape of the 5.56mm or 6.8mm Rem SPC.

For any military application except sniping, I'm personally of the opinion that giving up any reliability in terms of feeding (even something miniscule in comparison to other rounds) in the name of getting a round that can put a hurt on guys out past 600 meters is a complete mistake and a giant leap in an irrelevant direction. Having a round that is capable of shooting out to 1000 meters really means nothing when

a) it's coming out of a 4 MOA service rifle,
b) the guy shooting probably can't even ID the threat at that range, and
c) the shooter is trying to engage with iron sights or, at best, a relatively low-mag ACOG.

I think the Grendel brings something to the table as a dedicated sniper round, but I don't think it's the answer for a heavier than 5.56mm service cartridge.

 

[Zak Smith]

Please search for old threads on 6.5, 6.8, and "6.5 vs 6.8". There is a lot of good information in old threads.

 

[xploiter]

6.8mm

i pesonaly own a 6.5 & 6.8 and believe it or not the 6.8 blows the 6.5 out of the water beautiful rifle well done remington great job

 

[xploiter]

oh and the 6.8 does a better job then my .308 on accuracy a 600m i also took down a nice size pig with it from around 400 to 500 meters this is seriously a beautiful with stuff all recoil out of my .223,6.5mm,303 British & 308 i prefer the 6.8mm because of its take down power at long range and the lack recoil. very beautiful round and if you know anything about rifles I'm sure use will love it also. all i ever read is about people knocking it but i guessing they haven't tried it. i cant pick it i have been playing with rifles all my life and this is by far allot better then most for medium size game at long range.

 

[R.W.Dale]

i also took down a nice size pig with it from around 400 to 500 meters

a rangefinder might be a good investment. At 400 meters the core/lokt ultra 6.8 loading is only carrying 633 ft lbs of energy and a whopping 481 ft lbs at 500 meters. With a total bullet drop from a 200yd zero of over 6.5 FEET