6.5PRC and 6.5-284...oddness

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LoonWulf

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So, I did a far from scientific test, and dont have some of the particulars that yall are gonna want (im at work ill get water capacity of both cases when i get home friday). But I wanted to just bounce the this off THR to see if anyone has any ideas.

I have both a 6.5prc, and a 6.5-284. Same barrel lengths, similar barrel quality (the prc is actually a bit smoother, which may play a part in this). The enterwebz say capacity should be less than 1gr different, advantage -284 (Originally I thought it was more in favor of the prc)

I loaded up 20 rounds of both with exactly the same charge (which is what I worked upto previously in the prc, and got lack luster performance before abandoning) of RL-25.
Same CCI250.
Same 147 ELDm
Cases were hornady for the prc, nosler/norma for the 6.5-284.
COAL was 2.955 for the PRC, and 3.020 for the -284, which should have left them with similar internal capacity.

Shot both over my prochrono, with my Magneto speed attached. Velocity difference between the two was about 40fps, which is what ive observed before (just wanted to eliminate chronograph errors)

Im going form memory here, and ill update with actual chrono readings later.

PRC avg about 2775 (book list over 3K)
6.5-284 avg about 2950 (book lists 2900 at .2 lower charge, with a slightly shorter COAL)

Pressure signs on both (besides the constant ejector printing on the prc even with starting loads), were about average. No unusual case head marks, easy bolt lift, and primers with flat faces (less so for the prc) and rounded edges.
The 6.5-284 should actually be showing less pressure since the load is only about .2g over book max, and its .5 over book for the PRC.
Max pressure for the PRC is also about 7Kpsi over the -284

For reference ive run the PRC up to over 3K with the 147 and retumbo, just to see where pressure signs hit, and its WELL over book max, and again besides getting those ejector marks (which dont go away) there is no other signs untill bolt lift gets very slightly stiffer. The M18 has a short bolt lift which is very smooth, so any resistance is noticeable.
Im possibly attributing the ejector marks to the Hornady brass being a little soft. Ive fired the same cases 3 or 4 times each now tho, and the primer pockets are still good.


Accuracy from both guns is good to very good depending on how well im shooting that day. They both seem pretty forgiving with the 147s and changes in load weight/powder

Im kinda at loss as to why the PRC is so much slower/not building pressure.
Anyone have any ideas?
Honestly I do still need to get a box of factory ammo to see how that does, might try some new cases as well....Im not quite ready to write this rifle and round off yet.
 
LoonWulf said:
Honestly I do still need to get a box of factory ammo to see how that does, might try some new cases as well....Im not quite ready to write this rifle and round off yet.

I was getting 2,850 fps shooting Hornady 147gr ELD Match through my Kimber 8400 6.5 PRC with a 24" barrel. I only tried H1000 for handloads and was underwhelmed to say the least.
 
Interesting. Given your thorough descriptions, I'm wondering if the PRC chamber is oversized and you're losing velocity to fire-forming the case to the chamber? Have you FL sized the brass, and did it seem like it took more than "normal" effort? Measuring the water capacity of a fired versus sized case might be instructive.
 
how far off the lands are the bullets?
running both about 30k

I was getting 2,850 fps shooting Hornady 147gr ELD Match through my Kimber 8400 6.5 PRC with a 24" barrel. I only tried H1000 for handloads and was underwhelmed to say the least.
we're you seeing pressure signs? I remember the thread but don't remember if you hit pressure or not.

Interesting. Given your thorough descriptions, I'm wondering if the PRC chamber is oversized and you're losing velocity to fire-forming the case to the chamber? Have you FL sized the brass, and did it seem like it took more than "normal" effort? Measuring the water capacity of a fired versus sized case might be instructive.
no unusual effort, and not noticeably long either.
fired cases, even when run upto 3020 from my 24" had to have the die butt the holder slightly before the shoulder would be touched.
That's a good theory to explore tho, and I'll see if there's a capacity difference from full length sized, necked, and fired....well see if there's a significant difference.

A friend of mine just got in a fierce (also just found out the jerk bought the last two boxes of factory ammo last week before I got to the store) in 6.5prc so we'll shoot it and compare data, maybe tomorrow even.
 
LoonWulf said:
we're you seeing pressure signs? I remember the thread but don't remember if you hit pressure or not.

The velocity I mentioned above was with the factory 147gr load. I'll have to look at my notes to check on handload data.
 
I'll be interested to hear what you learn. I've been intrigued by the 6.5 PRC. It should be a significant step up from the 6.5 Creedmoor, less so from the 260 Ackley. I'd buy a Remage barrel to try it out, but none of my current actions have a magnum bolt face.
 
So i finally got around to taking capacity measurements, and i was reminded of something i learned a while ago and forgot, and of course my logs are still in storage.....
The Nosler brass im using is about 3gr lower capacity than "expected"
Nosler 6.5-284 capacity 65.5avg
Hornady 6.5PRC capacity 68.3avg

This explains why the 284s hitting pressure sooner, but still dosent really explain why the PRC is so much slower than expected from data. I also still havent gotten any factory ammo, or gotten to shoot my buddies Furry in PRC......

This whole project maybe coming to an end tho, as there is someone interested in the rifle.
Untill that point I might as well keep tinkering. Ive still got a pile of loaded rounds to use in my buddies gun.
 
LoonWulf said:
This whole project maybe coming to an end tho, as there is someone interested in the rifle.

The 6.5 PRC? Whether you keep it or not, here's some handload and factory data with the 24" barrel that I started with.

143gr ELD-X
Hornady Factory Load
2926 fps

142gr ABLR
H1000 - 60.5gr
Hornady brass
3094 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 59.0gr
Hornady brass
3012 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 59.5gr
Hornady brass
3047 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 60.0gr
Hornady brass
3083 fps

56.5gr_h1000_test.jpg
 
The 6.5 PRC? Whether you keep it or not, here's some handload and factory data with the 24" barrel that I started with.

143gr ELD-X
Hornady Factory Load
2926 fps

142gr ABLR
H1000 - 60.5gr
Hornady brass
3094 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 59.0gr
Hornady brass
3012 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 59.5gr
Hornady brass
3047 fps

143gr ELD-X
H1000 - 60.0gr
Hornady brass
3083 fps

View attachment 867029

Thanks!
Yeah, might sell the PRC. Ill still have my buddies to tinker with tho, and i just bullied another friend of mine into giving me a mason jar of his H1k to play with, so well see what that will do behind the 147s ive been shooting.
 
There seems to be a trend of new cartridges not matching the hype.
I was curious about the PRC, but was not motivated enough to try it.
 
Appreciate the info. I had an itch for a 6.5 SAUM until the 6.5 PRC came along; industry support tipped my interest toward the latter. Waiting for a day when work and weather allow me to get to the range with a new Bergara Premier HMR Pro.
 
I don't have any experience with the PRC, but was talking to a guy at the range the other day who had one that he had used some as a match rifle. I forget his exact numbers, but he was getting well over 3k fps with 140gr bullets, and around 3k fps with 147gr. @LoonWulf 's numbers are disappointing, but maybe that's just that individual rifle. The velocities that this guy was getting, and MCMXI are reporting do seem to live up to the "hype".
 
I don't have any experience with the PRC, but was talking to a guy at the range the other day who had one that he had used some as a match rifle. I forget his exact numbers, but he was getting well over 3k fps with 140gr bullets, and around 3k fps with 147gr. @LoonWulf 's numbers are disappointing, but maybe that's just that individual rifle. The velocities that this guy was getting, and MCMXI are reporting do seem to live up to the "hype".
Good chance his barrel is longer then the 24 inches like loonwulfs
 
Good chance his barrel is longer then the 24 inches like loonwulfs
I don't have any experience with the PRC, but was talking to a guy at the range the other day who had one that he had used some as a match rifle. I forget his exact numbers, but he was getting well over 3k fps with 140gr bullets, and around 3k fps with 147gr. @LoonWulf 's numbers are disappointing, but maybe that's just that individual rifle. The velocities that this guy was getting, and MCMXI are reporting do seem to live up to the "hype".
Good chance his barrel is longer then the 24 inches like loonwulfs
To be fair to the cartridge, I can break 3k with no pressure signs, but not at anything resembling book data.

The thing is annoyingly accurate also, it's hard to hate on a gun this smooth that prints 1" groups on the large size.
 
I've debated if I ever have to rebarrel my A-bolt in 7wsm. I don't know what I would pick. I really like the 7wsm and I like 7mms for hunting better then 6.5s. I just don't see the 7wsm lasting long, other then the few who use it for lr shooting it's uncommon.
 
Good chance his barrel is longer then the 24 inches like loonwulfs

Nope, it was 24" I asked, I don't know what loads he was using. For gun game uses, a lot of guys view over pressure as loosening primer pockets or trashing brass, and anything under as ok. His loads may well have been above book loads, but he said his brass life was fine.
 
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Sample of one rifle isn't enough to draw any conclusions. Every barrel is a law into itself.
Very true.
I've seen a 22 inch barreled 22-250 push a 53 VMAX at 4200 mine ran the same load at 3870.
I had argued the amount of hold over with him for years until I shot it across my chronograph.
agreed, I've never seen one with this much a difference from book tho.
 
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