6.5x55 Mauser Lee Dipper Chart vs. Lee Reloading Book Disparity

[jbloader]

Guys, I am a brand new reloader and was trying to load some rounds for my new Tikka Hunter 6.5x55 Swede. Here is the load:

120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip
Norma Brass
IMR 4064 (37.0 grain starting)
CCI 200
OAL 3.00.75

Where I ran into trouble was the 37 grains of powder. I weighed the 2.50 dipper that came with the 6.5 dies and it came out to @ 33.5 grains. Then I checked my .308 dipper (a 2.80) and it yielded @ 38.0 grains.

I made the decision to go with the 2.80 dipper and verified the charge about every third round. When I got online the Lee Dipper Capacity Chart shows that when using IMR 4064 the 2.50 dipper yields 33.6 grains while the 2.80 yields 37.6 grains.

So, am I to believe the chart or the book? Based on the above information should I be safe to shoot these or should I disassemble and go with the lower powder weight? Thanks in advance and it is not my intent to start a dipper or no dipper war. I am simply asking about the weight vs. the volume in regards to the Lee reloading information disparity, and which you would be more inclined to trust in this particular instance; the scale or the dipper.

 

[SwaneeSR]

So what kind of scale are you using and do you have a known check weight to verify?
I would be inclined to trust the scale. The Hodgon site is allowing 37.0 - 40.0 charge wt for that load and you have a modern action rifle that allows normal pressures.

Visit the URL below to view reloading data.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/dat...BW[]=120&Manufacturer[]=IMR&Powder[]=IMR+4064


Nice caliber choice , BTW.

 

[Scooter22]

The dippers are measuring by volume and the stated weights are approximate. The weight your throwing with the dippers can very by dipping technic, batch of powder ect. The dipper that comes with the die set when used properly will not throw a overload when using the listed powders. They are made that way. The weight of powder they throw are usually less than the published starting load that you would use when using a scale. Hope this answered your question. Re read the exsplanation of dipper use in the Lee manual and with the dipper set if you have it. The dipper technic I've read is the most consistent is to fill up a container like a old margerine tub or something similar. Take the dipper and base first submerge it in the powder allowing to flow in and fill it. Take it out and use something like a buisness or credit card to strike off the amount of powder level with the dipper mouth. You can throw very consistent charges this way. DO NOT use the dipper like a scoop. You'll compress powder and get variations. Good luck. PS

If you verified your loads are 38.0grs your 1.0 grain over the suggested starting load. In your case I think they are safe. Your using a modern rifle and most published data for 6.5x55 is kept low for safety in the orignal Swedish Mausers. As I said reread the instructions and understand the difference between volumn and weight. I would trust the scale if it's accurate over a statede weight for a dipper unless theres a big difference. Scales can get out of calibration. Fixed dippers dont. I use the Lee dippers often for reduced cast bullet loads all the time.

 

[fguffey]

If you are going to use Lee dippers you should read his book.

His dippers are more scientific that than reloaders give them credit for. The powder in the dipper can be leveled with a business type card for starting loads. The powder above the dipper does not have to be leveled. The reloader can dip a maximum scoop of powder without exceeding the max load; meaning the cone of powder will not enough powder to exceed the maximum load.

F. Guffey

 

[Scooter22]

If you are going to use Lee dippers you should read his book.

His dippers are more scientific that than reloaders give them credit for.
The powder in the dipper can be leveled with a business type card for starting loads. The powder above the dipper does not have to be leveled. The reloader can dip a maximum scoop of powder without exceeding the max load; meaning the cone of powder will not enough powder to exceed the maximum load.

F. Guffey

Thats true but you won't get as consistent a charge. Thats why almost any article I've read on reloading with the dippers tell you to strike the powder off level with the top. I forgot to mention in my first post as a new reloader the OP should stick to the starting load until he gets all the motions down of reloading. Then worry about working up a load. This is jmho but less likely to get into trouble. If he chose the next dipper up from the 2.8CC one, the 3.1 it would have gave him 41.6 grns. A overload.

 

[fguffey]

If he chose the next dipper up from the 2.8CC one, the 3.1 it would have gave him 41.6 grns. A overload.

If a reloader is going to use R. Lee dippers I suggest he read R. Lee's book on modern reloading. R. Lee says his dippers are scientifically design to have minimum and maximum; there is something about the cone of powder above the dipper that will not allow the reloader to reach over maximum loads. If the reloader decides to change dippers all bets are off.

F. Guffey

 

[Scooter22]

If a reloader is going to use R. Lee dippers I suggest he read R. Lee's book on modern reloading. R. Lee says his dippers are scientifically design to have minimum and maximum; there is something about the cone of powder above the dipper that will not allow the reloader to reach over maximum loads. If the reloader decides to change dippers all bets are off.

F. Guffey

I agree 100%. The Lee Dippers are designed to be simple and completely safe if you follow the directions. I have both Lee manuals and they have a lot of great info in them.

 

[Reloadron]

I agree with scooter22 in that using dippers is all about technique, your mileage may vary. I also agree with fguffey in that the cone if we choose to call it that does not amount to very much.

While I do not use dippers I had a 2.8 cc dipper laying around that came with some 7mm-08 Lee dies. Dipper in hand with some IMR 4064 powder I wanted to see how the numbers would play out.

IMR-4064 Powder has a VMD factor of 0.0745
VMD Factor * Charge in Grains = Volume cc (cubic centimeters)

A 2.8 cc dipper filled with IMR-4064 should yield about 37.6 grains of powder. I weighed five charges without skimming the top and my average was about 40.78 grains. I weighed 5 charges skimming the tops and averaged 38.26 grains. So call it 40.8gn and 38.3gn so we have a spread of about 2.5gn. This is why I choose not to use the dippers. I like to remain within +/- 0.1gn.

As to the "cone" I now prefer to call it a slight mound because in reality it is not at all cone shaped but more like a mound. However, if we look at it as a cone the ID of the 2.8cc dipper is 0.485" and my best guess at height of the powder without skimming is right about 0.125" and using those numbers and calculating the volume of a cone we get about 0.0077 cubic inch or in cubic centimeter about 0.1262 cc. or roughly 4.5% of the 2.8cc of the dipper.

The numbers are all about the technique, much like using a powder throw and getting repeatability. I only went with some simple numbers. If someone had infinite patience they could run 10 samples of skimmed and un skimmed and get the averages as well as the mean deviations maximum spread and all that fun stuff. All of my numbers exceeded the 37.6 gn I should have seen. However, looking at the Lyman 49th Edition the 6.5 x 55 Swede with a 120gn Nosler Ballistic tip has a load range of 36.0 to 40.0 grains of IMR-4064. All of my dippers without skimming exceeded 40.0 grains. with a 40.78 average.

Ron

 

[au_prospector]

You could take the time to calibrate your dippers for each powder you use. Various powders will have varying weight per dipper volume due to each having unique density. ...so it is essential to know what 3031 weighs in a 2.8 dipper as opposed to say 4064, and so on. You might want to use a known calibrated scale to do this. The bigger your sample sizes, ie weigh 35 charges with statistical averages, standard deviations, mean, mode, median.

Or you could do what I do since your handling each charge anyway. I use a dipper set knowing each size will deliver about so much powder. I scoop with a dipper and weigh it on my balance scale, then trickle in to an exact weight. I dont mind weighing each charge, clears my mind after a stressful day at work.