6.8 SPC here to stay?

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kentucky_smith

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I can have a new JT upper at my house in a day, and have been wanting to pull the trigger on getting a 6.8 as a viable deer cartridge.

Don't particularly care much for the price of mags, but ammo doesn't seem to bad, as long as I buy online. I'm not looking so much for a range toy, as something with a bit more oomph than my poodleshooter.

Or for the same money I could get a 7.62x39 and have plentiful ammo available.
 
I would (and did) go with the 6.5 Grendel

The 6.5 Grendel is far superior to both the 6.8 and 7.62x39 in the ballistics department, and better than the 308 after about 300 yards. As far as bullets go, the 6.5 will give you 85 grains up to 144 grains, with everything from match hp’s to premium hunting bullets like the Nosler ballistic tips and Partitions. Wolf is now making brass cased FMJ and soft points that are very affordable. Wolf will be making cheap steel cases ammo soon and Black Hills has thrown their hat in the ring as well and will be making ammo as well.

The Grendel offers a lot of performance in a little package.
 
But where do you get uppers, especially for the comparable $485 a new JT is going to cost me?
 
Unless you plan on doing a lot of 700 meter deer shots and whatnot, there's not much difference in 6.8 Rem SPC and 6.5 Grendel (+/- fun marketing name) at typical hunting ranges.

You can, however, get a 6.8mm upper cheaper than you can currently get a 6.5 Grendel upper.
 
Uppers

Yes, the Grendel uppers are a little more. Alexander Arms has their "hunter" upper for about $525. There are a few other companies making complete uppers as well, and many others making barrels. The magazines for the Grendel are much higher quality than thoes made in 5.56, 6.8, or 7.62; and we all know that one of the weekest links for an auto loading weapon is its magazines.

While the Grendel's long range is a big advantage, it is also a great hunting round. The sectional density of 6.5mm bullets is very high, resulting in better penetration for bullets of the same weight. Look at the Grendel. it is the better cartridge. In the AR platform the 6.8 is getting less than great accuracy reviews.

IMHO, the 6.8 was a quick fix to put a band-aid on the M16/AR15 platform for what some considered an ineffective cartridge (the 223/5.56).
 
Advice needed

I've be going back and forth on this very point 6.5 G vs. 6.8.

Not to be a thread stealer but:

Where can I get a complete 6.5 G rifle (20 inch barrel) that's the best compromise between price and quality and how much will I have to pay?

THX in advance for the pointers.

S-
 
I think the cheapest build would be the tactical straight from Alexander Arms. I think I priced it out for around $1K and am looking to that direction whenever the ammo situation is sorted out (probably the biggest downfall to the 6.5G right now).
 
It's too early to tell, but my guess is that it will never be more common and affordable than it is now... If you can deal with that, have at it!

I'm steering clear of it, personally, for now anyways...
 
The magazines for the Grendel are much higher quality than thoes made in 5.56, 6.8, or 7.62
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My steel PRI 6.8mm magazines appear to be of as high a quality as anything else that will go in an AR magwell, to include my issue HK mags.

That's not been my experience nor that of the other 6.8SPC shooters that I know.
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Nor mine. I don't notice any difference in accuracy between shooting my 6.8 AR versus my 5.56mm AR versus my issue M4.
 
Bushmaster and Rock River are making 6.8 SPC's in addition to a dozen or so various smaller makes. Two major American ammo makers are producing ammo plus a couple of minors. The 6.8 SPC isn't going anywhere despite most fervent wishes of the Grendel-pushers.

The 6.8 SPC is every bit as well designed for its intended purpose as the Grendel. There is no magic in a cartridge. The 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are compromise cartridges. For everthing you gain in one area, you lose somewhere else. Take a good hard look before you invest in either one.

David
 
My personal preference is for the grendel, but the SPC has caught on hard and fast. Given the number of uppers out there, and the number of new firearms slated to have conversion kits for the caliber, I would guess that the 6.8 SPC is more than a passing fad.

Of course, the grendel is here to stay too, but that's because all the grendel supporters are rabid. Really, don't engage them. They'll start jibbering nonsense about ballistic coefficients and then they'll bite you, and suddenly you'll start giving Bill Alexander large amounts of money for no particular reason.

Is the 6.8 a compromise? Of course it is. We are of mortal flesh and cannot fire battle rifle cartridges on rock and roll all day. Is it a good compromise? Well, I'd certainly take it before the 5.56x45, the 5.45x39 and the 7.62x39. It has more reliable terminal ballistics than the former two and better intermediate ballistics than the latter.

That and, as much as I hate to say this, it probably jams less than the grendel owing to the smoother shoulder.
 
Percy

Really, don't engage them. They'll start jibbering nonsense about ballistic coefficients and then they'll bite you, and suddenly you'll start giving Bill Alexander large amounts of money for no particular reason.
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I damn near peed my pants... Thats some funny stuf right there.

Aaaah... I love the smell of a caliber war in the morning.

We are in deed a rabid bunch, but can you blame us? We are fighting hard for the cartridge that we feel is the best.
 
I think manufacturers have to pay Alexander Arms to make ammo or uppers for 6.5 grendel, thus it will never gain widespread popularity.

Well we talked about it for two years....but after an enormous amount of work we have started licensing an elite group of firearm and firearm related product manufacturers to make licensed Beowulf® and Grendelf® products. Now there will be a full complement of bolt action rifles, gas operated semi-automatics and custom shops - all chambered in the exciting 6.5 Grendelf® and .50 Beowulf® cartridge. If you would like to learn more about qualifying to become a licensee of Alexander Arms, send us an email at [email protected].
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There are actually large differences between the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC.


6.8 SPC

1. designed to maximise anti-personnel lethality at short to moderate range.
2. primary design goal to get a bullet to fragment in under 3" of penetration of soft tissue - goal met with fragmentation in 1" penetration. Not good for most hunting but good for anti-personnel use.
3. case length is same as 5.56 but with a larger caliber resulting in 110gr and 115gr being the only factory loads (need to keep in AR15 mag length and not greatly reduce powder capacity). Bullet selection fine for anti-personnel but more limited for hunting.
4. bolt is specific to 6.8 SPC only in the AR15 platform.
5. competition shooters have no advantage to use 6.8 SPC - can't make major, has more recoil than .223, and average accuracy is over 1.0 MOA.
6. upper cost is reasonable although the cheapest ammo is $0.65 to 0.75 per round. Average ammo cost is $1.00 per round.
7. has received large amounts of advertising and marketing.

Summary: great anti-personnel capability and useable for medium game hunting. Here to stay for the near term due to major backing and advertising.

6.5 Grendel

1. designed to provide maximum all around capability for an intermediate cartridge in the AR15 platform.
2. primary design goal to maximise efficiency of the AR15 platform and provide a cartridge capable of long range performance - goal met with a cartridge that lives on the border of the AR15 mechanical capability - you can't handload stronger than factory ammo without severely effecting bolt life.
3. case length is shorter than .223 with larger bullets allowing a wide range of bullet weights without effecting powder capacity. Bullets from 85gr to 130gr can be used without degrading velocity severely. Great choices for hunting and Black Hills ammo turned out to be good for Anti-personnel use with fragmentation of the 123gr OTM after 2" soft tissue penetration.
4. Two bolt types are used with 6.5 Grendel builds - a 6.5 Grendel specific bolt and 7.62x39 bolts - the 6.5 Grendel specific bolt has slightly deeper bolt face and requires different headspacing from a 7.62x39 bolt. The capability to use 7.62x39 bolts makes the 6.5 Grendel an easy conversion in bolt action rifles.
5. Competition shooters can achieve major power factor (MPF) with the 6.5 Grendel giving a point advantage over .223 and average accuracy of the 6.5 Grendel with factory ammo is 1/2 MOA resulting in off the shelf guns and ammo being competitive.
6. Cheapest uppers are about $100 more than cheapest 6.8 SPC uppers. Cheapest ammo is $0.49 per round with average ammo cost at $1.00 per round.
7. Has received almost no advertising or marketing other than word of mouth by fans.

Summary: great hunting capability useable for varmints to medium game with factory ammo with a very wide bullet range selection, provides similar anti-personnel capability to the 6.8 SPC, is gaining acceptance for competition use. Here to stay due to broad cartridge capability in an AR15.
 
The 6.8 is the military's replacement for the .223/5.56 caliber rifles. That means that in a couple of years surplus military ammo should be more available for the 6.8 SPC than for the 6.5 Grendel. You will probably be able to get 6.8 SPC ammo for much less that it will cost you for the 6.5 ammo. Same thing for magazines and such. Eventually the 6.8 SPC will probably be the better economic value and parts value. Think ahead.;)
 
The 6.8 is the military's replacement for the .223/5.56 caliber rifles. That means that in a couple of years surplus military ammo should be more available
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LOL-Doggy.jpg


I wouldn't be holding my breath buddy.
 
The 6.8 is the military's replacement for the .223/5.56 caliber rifles.

I wouldn'y count on that. While some special ops troops may use the 6.8, replacing the 5.56 is a long way off. Most people who get on the replace the 5.56 bandwagon ignore the tremendous cost involved. Guns, training, ammo, etc. Remember, it's the 5.56 NATO and we'd need to convince everyone in NATO to switch rounds too.

I've used the 5.56 NATO and M16 in the military and law enforcement since 1968. The M16 and 5.56 work well for most situations and like anything else it does have limitations.
 
SOCOM did field trials with 6.8 Rem SPC as a replacement for 5.56mm. For assorted reasons they rejected it. There has been some talk in the gun rags of the USMC looking at it as well, but I don't think their interest is overly serious at this time. While I don't think the round is dead by any stretch of the imagination, the odds of ever seeing military surplus 6.8mm ammo or components, much less in a couple years, is remote. If the army's current R&D effort actually pans out (obviously a hit and miss proposition) the next service round we adopt may be caseless or cased-telescoping.
 
There are many fine rounds that have been left in the dust of history and I'm afraid the Grendel round will be one of them. There are now three ammunition companies making 6.8 SPC with several gunmakers bringing out the 6.8 SPC chambering. The Ruger Ranch Rifle being the latest. Check out the history of the British developed .280 that was designed for their Enfield EM-2 rifles. The renown Belgian FN-FAL was first built for the 280 British round, but pressure from the United States for NATO to accept the 7.62x51 was too great and this fine short bottlenecked cartridge went by the wayside. The 280 was far superior to the 7.62x51 and very much better than the later 5.56mm round that replaced the 7.62x51. Had NATO gone with the British round we would most likely be still using it very effectively in our military rifles and not be shopping for something heavier and more effective than the 5.56mm.
I also doubt that the 5.56 will be replaced any time soon. far too much invested in it by now.
 
Just an update, I bought a 6.8 upper last week.
I've been contemplating a 6.x buy for awhile now and I chose the 6.8. Why? I've got "high-powered rifle" pretty well covered (pre64 M70 30-06, 6.5 Swede Mauser, FAL, M1, .280 m70) and wanted to use my EBR for a Jim Zumbo Special this year. For less than $500, I recieved a complete upper from JT yesterday, hopefully I'll get to shoot it tomorrow. I can't find a Grendel anywhere, the only option right now without a 12 week wait is a Satern bbl and bolt, and that's too much $$$ and I ain't that patient.

All the major mfgr's of ARs are going to the 6.8, and my local dealer is selling the crap out of Contender pistol barrels and Remington ammo, because evidently the spc is the new darling of handgun silhouette shooters. Evidently it beats the 7-30 Waters and 7 TCU both in ballistics and manageable recoil.

Good enough for me
 
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